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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 15th Oct 2019, 12:06
  #10981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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One of the criteria for a country to qualify as a democracy is precisely, that everyone is entitled to his opinion, and is free to express it or demonstrate.
Sooo..
Fly, answered in the Brexit thread where it belongs.
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 12:08
  #10982 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
But not so that it impinges on the rights of others to go about their lawful business without let or hindrance.
Would that mean that this Brexit affair doesn't hinder anybody's lawful business, in the UK or abroad ?
But people marching with placards do ?
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 12:12
  #10983 (permalink)  
 
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Yes valid to 70. Nothing in this life is FREE, you will still be required to find a booth and pay for your photographs plus postage etc, and a lot of the poor or elderly simply will not be able to get to one or afford it. I am not opposed to ID cards in principal having had one in the military, but I see this as a backdoor to bringing in a country wide ID system and that I oppose.
There is no need for a new ID card, you could for example issue a free driving licence, which is neither a provisional licence nor a "driving licence" just stamp across the front Voting ID or similar, you can then piggyback it off an existing system, but have you seen the figures?

Research in 2015 by the Electoral Commission, the independent body that sets the standards of elections in the UK, indicated that about 3.5 million citizens, or 7.5% of the electorate, did not have access to any approved photo ID.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50051178

Out of 44.6 million votes cast in 2017, there was one conviction resulting from the 28 allegations of in-person voter fraud – that’s 0.000063%. Adding a major barrier to democratic engagement off the back of this would be a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...racy/voter-id/

That is why I think there is a backdoor attempt to reintroduce the ID system. But lets look at it in another way, sign up for postal votes or proxy votes and the whole idea of an ID becomes a moot point as one would not be needed. so why bother with it in the first place?

You say you need a photo ID for lots of things, not really true, two addressed items of mail often suffices, Audi tried it on when I bought a car from them and the same garage had warranty work needed doing, pointing out I would reject the vehicle it suddenly did not become an issue..... Strange that!
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 12:18
  #10984 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
Fly, answered in the Brexit thread where it belongs.
Felix, better not to cross post, thanks.

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Old 15th Oct 2019, 12:34
  #10985 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Would that mean that this Brexit affair doesn't hinder anybody's lawful business, in the UK or abroad ?
But people marching with placards do ?
Don't be obtuse.

The majority voted to go in the direction we are now going, right or wrong.

Should you not know, we have in Hyde Park a Speaker's Corner where anybody is free to declaim whatever they want. They are proscribed by law from incitement to violence, hate crimes etc. They don't stop or hinder any one and usually attract small crowds.
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 12:43
  #10986 (permalink)  
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Nutty, not at our sorting office. Quite clear, photo or nowt.

In your other cases a utility bill, council tax bill etc do count.

Interesingly, in one case a Forces ID card does not count.
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 12:50
  #10987 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
The majority voted to go in the direction we are now going, right or wrong.
After what you told me about your voting system, I wouldn't be so affirmative.

But yes everybody in Europe wish you out and are concerned that you're still there, and maybe for a while.



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Old 15th Oct 2019, 13:00
  #10988 (permalink)  
 
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Brilliant!
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 13:31
  #10989 (permalink)  
 
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Priceless!
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Old 15th Oct 2019, 14:58
  #10990 (permalink)  
 
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Re photo ID: about 15 years ago, I took my teen aged son to my bank (with whom I had banked for 30 years) to open a current account for him. We went through the paperwork with a nice lady and then she demanded some proof of ID for him. I argued for a minute but she wouldn't give in. So I went around to her side of the desk, took a seat next to her, looked at my son and said "Yes. I can confirm that is my son". It didn't work and we ended up having to go back home to dig out his passport.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 08:36
  #10991 (permalink)  
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This will tie into the report that Mark Sedwell, Cabinet Secretary, has advised the government that, for logistical reasons including booking counting halls etc, Dec 12th is the last POSSIBLE Election Day before Xmas, meaning a vote in Parliament no later than the end of next week.

POLITICO:

ELECTION OR REFERENDUM? Labour will back an election if a Brexit extension comes into force next week, senior Labour officials say, despite growing pressure from a number of shadow Cabinet figures for the party to back a referendum first.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 08:40
  #10992 (permalink)  
 
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If we leave on 31st I would prefer an election to be delayed until the effects of leaving hit the news. I don't expect it to be very long before the inevitable headlines of failing businesses, redundancies, ex pats in dire straits etc. Three months should just about do it.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 08:51
  #10993 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
If we leave on 31st I would prefer an election to be delayed until the effects of leaving hit the news. I don't expect it to be very long before the inevitable headlines of failing businesses, redundancies, ex pats in dire straits etc. Three months should just about do it.
If Corbyn has a (strategic) brain he'll be thinking like that; if Johnson has a (strategic) brain he will realise that too.

I glanced at an article in the politics section of the BBC TV text pages last night and the gist was that the BBC had seen draft election material from the Tory party that makes the assumption they'll be fight the election whilst the UK is still in the EU, and warning Brexit voters against voting for the Brexit party as to do so could lead to no Brexit at all (sound familiar???).

As an aside, a real shame the BBC has decided that unlike other European broadcasters there's no longer a place for text based news; a decision taken completely without consultation. Typical I suppose of an organisation who's revenue comes from a tax and therefore has no real imperative to sell a proposal to their customers; since we aren't customers!
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 09:05
  #10994 (permalink)  
 
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There is likely other reasons than Brexit as to why Labour might want an election sooner rather than later.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9153561.html

They are deluded enough to think they might actually win an election. Who knows what Orwellian measures they will then try and bring in to close down an investigation.

If they lose then Corbyn & co know they are finished and can walk away with their millions after having bankrupted the party.

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Old 16th Oct 2019, 11:40
  #10995 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
If Corbyn has a (strategic) brain he'll be thinking like that; if Johnson has a (strategic) brain he will realise that too.
I glanced at an article in the politics section of the BBC TV text pages last night and the gist was that the BBC had seen draft election material from the Tory party that makes the assumption they'll be fight the election whilst the UK is still in the EU, and warning Brexit voters against voting for the Brexit party as to do so could lead to no Brexit at all (sound familiar???).
I'd assume there is also draft copy for the other possible outcomes too. It would be good planning to cover all bases.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 12:09
  #10996 (permalink)  
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ex pats in dire straits etc
And how would that effect domestic sentiment?

1. Envy as expats benefit from a benificent EU?

Or

2. Self satisfaction that 'I'm alright Jack'?

I don't think the expats will have any influence, they haven't up till now.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 12:30
  #10997 (permalink)  
 
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Most still have a vote in anyGE here as well as children and grandchildren who may be influenced by the plight of the old timers. No gain here, only loss.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 12:59
  #10998 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Most still have a vote in anyGE here as well as children and grandchildren who may be influenced by the plight of the old timers. No gain here, only loss.
In the context of many expats don't forget that the 15 year rule means they don't have a vote in a UK GE....I promise not to drag "no taxation without representation" into it again....oh
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 13:03
  #10999 (permalink)  
 
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I was watching the ex-boss of Thomas Cook being interviewed by the select committee of MP's on the failure of Thomas Cook and the reasons behind it, he gave several reasons, good weather in 2018 at home, Brexit uncertainty... etc etc etc, the MP questioning him then asked in the light of the failure, does he not feel he should pay back some / all of his bonus / wages...…. I waited but was sadly disappointed with his response, what he should have said was....

"In light of the fact that Brexit and the failure of this house to come up with a viable plan and their repeated failure to achieve a coordinated exit, resulting in you all kicking the can down the road repeatedly to further your own political ends, while the Country suffers, leaving the Country and business out on a limb without a strategy that they can work too...…. Shouldn't you also consider returning your remuneration?"


Sadly he didn't.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 14:09
  #11000 (permalink)  
 
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I believe this may be the election material referred to by ATNotts in his post above:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50029635

Re Corbyn; it looks as if he may (only 'may') be heading for the exit with colleagues, including John McDonnell, manouvering around him. I hope so as an election with a different leader would provide a far better outcome for the Labour Party. But then, we all knew that, didn't we?
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