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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 1st Oct 2019, 21:52
  #10801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
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So ... it came from that arch propagandist - Josef Goebbels. Semmler, as I said, was his Press Officer and kept his diary, writing from the perspective of a committed Party member and admirer of his boss. Goebbels's quote either indicates a remarkable depth of hypocrisy or a self-conviction that he was not a politician. Either way, the sentiments expressed appear, to me, to be a remarkably accurate summing up of a great many of the breed.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 05:36
  #10802 (permalink)  
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That's what friends are for when you need them most.......not just one but two borders ! ....... and presumably a bit in the middle as well.

Mind you, when Arlene may come in useful due to a somewhat depleted majority, as blatant cash bribery has already been used, why not continue in the same tried and tested manner only this time without the cash.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...or-its-no-deal
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 05:57
  #10803 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Talk about brass neck!
In her speech today, Priti Patel basically declared war on immigrants, ...
Please explain?
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 06:21
  #10804 (permalink)  
 
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Read the full post. Particularly the bit about North London metropolitan elite. Where is Islington?
Self explanatory really.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 06:33
  #10805 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
I hope you're not suggesting the Tory party are the only one's to eject people from their conference.
I wasn't ..The point I was making should have been fairly obvious, given the Priti Patel comment just above it.

You did see that, didn't you?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-and-disorder
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 07:53
  #10806 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Read the full post. Particularly the bit about North London metropolitan elite. Where is Islington?
Self explanatory really.
You'll have to explain that one carefully to someone from nowhere near the South East. Islington is north of the City of London and it is VERY metropolitan. Or are you on about where she was born? Does where you are born irretrievably 'type' your character or something like that? I know someone who was born in Nazi Germany and I see absolutely no reason why that should imply anything about them. Sorry, but I didn't find that self explanatory. Could you explain? Especially the original question about what is meant by "... basically declared war on immigrants ..."?
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 09:01
  #10807 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
One can make up any 'would have' situations one likes in hindsight.

Let's try another one:

After being freed from EU restraints and the financial drain of EU membership the British economy would have increased global trade and would have moved up to being the world's third biggest economy. London would have strengthened its position as the world's leading financial city.

Glass half empty vs glass half full. (Eeyore vs Tigger?) Or maybe reality is neither but a more boring, but still pleasant, position somewhere in between.

One thing is certain: three years of kicking the can down the road and the uncertainty that it brings has done no-one anywhere any favours. Especially all the politicians involved -- on all sides.
Noel Evans,

The major flaw in your argument is that my "would have" is based on the announcements of CEO's of major international companies with UK operations and the announcements of UK companies on the effect of tariffs on their operations. They are announcing intentions, and that makes them far more credible and likely than the admittedly now flawed pronouncements of George Osbourne.

Not sure how you reckon that the UK economy could have increased its share of global trade, we currently trade with the majority of all significant overseas markets via EU deals that were negotiated on the basis of 500m consumers and 28 economies, how can the UK on its own be expected to improve on such deals? Then add the withdrawal of significant chunks of UK manufacturing in the face of tariffs and barriers to the flow of goods, people, finance and services, and your glass is VERY hard to justify half filling.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 12:04
  #10808 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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So it's doing the rounds on Twitter that the European Commission donated over 3.4m to a company called 'Transparency International. A director of this company happens to be the husband of one Jo Swinson who is busy trying to overturn the democratic vote to leave.

But Boris touched someones thigh 20 years ago and said the word 'Humbug' so guess what the media are focused on.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 12:09
  #10809 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
So it's doing the rounds on Twitter that the European Commission donated over 3.4m to a company called 'Transparency International. A director of this company happens to be the husband of one Jo Swinson who is busy trying to overturn the democratic vote to leave.

But Boris touched someones thigh 20 years ago and said the word 'Humbug' so guess what the media are focused on.
Lots of things "do the rounds on Twitter". The European Commission doesn't "donate" money to anyone. Perhaps we may be enlightened as to who, or which organisation stared this story running. I don't use Twitter as a source of news as it, and the other social media outlets I consider to be on the whole peddlers of fake news and not to be trusted.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 12:14
  #10810 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
So it's doing the rounds on Twitter
Oh and btw, what is the ruling of the Twitter Court of Appeal about the BJ vs Supreme Court case ?

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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 12:16
  #10811 (permalink)  
 
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This will be the same Twitter where stories 'do the rounds' that immunisation causes harm to children.

The EU might have commissioned the company to carry out some work. It would be helpful if Twitter had said what this project was. It certainly wasn't a donation.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 12:20
  #10812 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
This will be the same Twitter where stories 'do the rounds' that immunisation causes harm to children.

The EU might have commissioned the company to carry out some work. It would be helpful if Twitter had said what this project was. It certainly wasn't a donation.
Why would the Twitter posters - and Passers On do that?
Fake News posters never get brought to book do feel fireproof.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 13:32
  #10813 (permalink)  
 
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Transparency International's accounts for 2019 show that they received a grant of 2,000 from the EU. They also received a grant of 2,000 from Harlesden Community Church in NW London which puts it into context!

There are some interesting grants: 80,000 from GlaxoWelcome and 1,290,000 from the Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Take that [email protected]!!!
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 13:54
  #10814 (permalink)  
 
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Take that [email protected]!!!
More the [email protected] that post garbage and fake news on said site. Another reason not to trust a word that written on it unless it's properly cross referenced with a reputable news organisation (by which i don't mean the UK tabloid press or certain websites much favoured by some posters on here).
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 14:09
  #10815 (permalink)  
 
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Such as the rubbish posted on there and much quoted on here regarding alleged wrong doings of the leave campaign for instance?

The point of my original post however was that had this been suggested of Boris it would likely have been all over mainstream media whether it is true or not.

Meanwhile his speech today at the conference was a world away from the outdated claptrap spouted by Corbyn & co. If he manages to get us out at the end of the month then I can't see any other outcome at a GE than another term for the Tories Whether Boris can survive the onslaught of smear being thrown at him to see that term through remains to be seen.







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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 14:20
  #10816 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts; fair point, my comment was a bit like blaming the car not the driver!
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 14:20
  #10817 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
Such as the rubbish posted on there and much quoted on here regarding alleged wrong doings of the leave campaign for instance?

The point of my original post however was that had this been suggested of Boris it would likely have been all over mainstream media whether it is true or not.

Meanwhile his speech today at the conference was a world away from the outdated claptrap spouted by Corbyn & co. If he manages to get us out at the end of the month then I can't see any other outcome at a GE than another term for the Tories Whether Boris can survive the onslaught of smear being thrown at him to see that term through remains to be seen.
Boris said he will "Get Brexit done and bring people together."
The first is a given. But how does he propose to follow up with the second, at a time when people have never been more divided?
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 14:34
  #10818 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile his speech today at the conference was a world away from the outdated claptrap spouted by Corbyn & co. If he manages to get us out at the end of the month then I can't see any other outcome at a GE than another term for the Tories Whether Boris can survive the onslaught of smear being thrown at him to see that term through remains to be seen.
His (Johnson's) cunning plan appears to have been to get a no confidence motion through, suspend parliament and hold an election a couple of days after 31st October, before any consequences of no deal could be evident, and therefore win hands down, Brexit Party support having gone back to the Tories because he'd got the job done, in the manner they wished it to be done.

Unfortunately things haven't quite gone the way he might have wished. The levers of power, as regards the calling of and winning of a vote of confidence appear to have been gifted to Corbyn and the anti no deal coalition, and if they hold that vote when it looks as though that no deal crash out is almost inevitable, and win it, then the election would likely go ahead at the end of November, plum in the middle of any crisis that no deal on 31st October might cause. The electorate, well at least the rump of it that didn't want no deal as an outcome, will likely reject Johnson and his cronies as they will view him as responsible for the mess. Result most probably a Labour win,and not just for a few months would we have Corbyn in power, but gawd forbid, potentially 5 years.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 14:44
  #10819 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think Corbyn has a chance of winning an election.

Even if we end up in a no deal situation and even if it is anywhere near as bad as some people are suggesting. People are well aware that any effects will pale into insignificance by the effects of a Corbyn and McDonnell run government.

Most leave voters did so fully expecting short term pain and we would need to see long term effects to reverse the popularity gained by getting us out in the first place.
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Old 2nd Oct 2019, 14:57
  #10820 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
I don't think Corbyn has a chance of winning an election.

Even if we end up in a no deal situation and even if it is anywhere near as bad as some people are suggesting. People are well aware that any effects will pale into insignificance by the effects of a Corbyn and McDonnell run government.

Most leave voters did so fully expecting short term pain and we would need to see long term effects to reverse the popularity gained by getting us out in the first place.
Don't be so sure. Those of us aged over 60 can obviously remember the devaluation of sterling under Wilson, and the decimation of our manufacturing industry caused to no small extent by the excessive power and militancy of some trades unions, along with evening spent under candle light because the the EEPTU had pulled the plus on power generation. Younger people remember Thatcher, and her attitude to manufacturing industry, high unemployment and the like, and most people younger than that will have brought up under the comparative moderation of the likes of Major, Blair, Brown, and Cameron and have no idea what a left wing government could achieve. And this younger cohort are likely to be much more anti the Tories under Johnson as they are by and large more Europhile than Eurosceptic and won't forgive chaos caused as a result of no deal.

As a 60-something, living in a very marginal constituency (3 ways), if Johnson does take us out with no deal, be sure that though I really don't relish a Corbyn government, I'll vote for whoever keeps the Tory out - just this time perhaps.
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