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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 27th Sep 2019, 16:52
  #10681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Can anyone see what advantage JC and Labour could gain from jumping into the driver's seat with the SNP at this stage. Get all the problems and tick off English voters and sign up to another Scottish referendum ??
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 17:10
  #10682 (permalink)  
 
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... Diane Abbott would be in the Home Office and count as many Policemen as she wants.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 17:48
  #10683 (permalink)  
 
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On the other hand . . . . .

If Great Britain cedes NI to Ireland the troubles will be their's and not the British government's. Two birds with one stone. Sort out Brexit and get rid of the NI problem entirely.

I realise at the moment Boris relies on the DUP (is it?) to hold his government together but if he gets a substantial majority in an election?

On the other hand if he can get a no deal Brexit on the books he could leave sustaining a hard border to Dublin and the EU to establish and that might bring some pressure on them to do a trade deal rather than go to all the trouble (of a hard border.)

Interesting times ahead, as if they were not already interesting enough.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 19:25
  #10684 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
On the other hand . . . . .

If Great Britain cedes NI to Ireland the troubles will be their's and not the British government's. Two birds with one stone. Sort out Brexit and get rid of the NI problem entirely.

I realise at the moment Boris relies on the DUP (is it?) to hold his government together but if he gets a substantial majority in an election?

On the other hand if he can get a no deal Brexit on the books he could leave sustaining a hard border to Dublin and the EU to establish and that might bring some pressure on them to do a trade deal rather than go to all the trouble (of a hard border.)

Interesting times ahead, as if they were not already interesting enough.
Putting other matters aside for a moment, are we sure Eire actually wants NI?
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 19:57
  #10685 (permalink)  
 
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Of course it doesn't: would you ?
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 20:00
  #10686 (permalink)  
 
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My Irish neighbour says the south couldn't afford to unify with the north.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 20:21
  #10687 (permalink)  
 
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So that settles the matter.

So two referendums (I checked the plural form ;-) in Ireland and NI
If the results coincide and say "no hard border", then go ahead...
If not, haha, times will get even more interesting^^!
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 20:30
  #10688 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Thank you Fly Aiprt. It's good to have friends in Europe to help some British people to understand the structure of their own country. I'm sure your advice has been greatly appreciated.
I said I'd be kind to Noel.
We've always been under the impression that only Brits could understand the British system. Now if even they get lost...
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 20:56
  #10689 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
I said I'd be kind to Noel.
We've always been under the impression that only Brits could understand the British system. Now if even they get lost...
Not all of us, I hope.

Rudyard Kipling wrote:
"What do they know of England, that only England know?"
​​​​​​
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 21:34
  #10690 (permalink)  
 
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ChrisVJ,

You seem to misunderstand the nature of The Troubles. It is the Republicans wanting to be part of Eire that is the cause. Uniting Ireland solves the problem.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 21:49
  #10691 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
So that settles the matter.

So two referendums (I checked the plural form ;-) in Ireland and NI
If the results coincide and say "no hard border", then go ahead...
If not, haha, times will get even more interesting^^!
There has always been provision within the Good Friday Agreement for a 'Border Poll' if/when it was considered appropriate.

Analysis: How likely is an Irish border poll? | CommonSpace

Putting aside the fact that Johnson appears to have hastily gained a reverence for the Good Friday Agreement since March of this year, ……...while simultaneously striving to make sure that republican aspirations are frustrated at every turn and that British rule is never threatened by something as tawdry as democracy.
it goes on;
In May 2018, reports emerged that then-Prime Minister Theresa May was doubtful about whether the UK would triumph if a border poll was held, leading to criticism from Sinn Féin’s Northern Irish leader Michelle O’Neill that May was "conceding that the Good Friday Agreement threshold for triggering a unity poll has been met" but was not prepared "to allow the people of Ireland, north and south, to exercise their democratic right".
...but the Blond Bungling Buffoon has a cunning plan.....apparently..

There's no reason for border poll in event of hard Brexit, says Boris Johnson - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

..but he just can't explain to anybody what it is!!!
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 22:15
  #10692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
ChrisVJ,

You seem to misunderstand the nature of The Troubles. It is the Republicans wanting to be part of Eire that is the cause. Uniting Ireland solves the problem.
With respect, I think you need to read a little bit more into the history of the troubles.

You may need to be very selective as to how far back in history you go and you might want to consider how ROI would feel about having 1 million (ish) angry Orangemen in their northern provinces. (Battle of the Boyne 1690 is a fair start)

Up to a point I would agree uniting Ireland could solve (aka; get rid of) some of the problems but in other respects it would also open a whole new set of issues with the Scottish border.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 04:34
  #10693 (permalink)  
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Coming soon ! ...the definitive media perspective of politics !.......one was an avid viewer last time, and will be again. Nice observation about Raab .....although he probably won't be too impressed.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...tin-zuckerberg

Meanwhile, for the contributor in particular who opined all this happened a couple of jobs ago....which is correct, it did, unfortunately ( for Boris ) others are not inclined to be so casually dismissive . There again, when it comes to "misconduct in the public office" , they might as well add his performance as PM to the referral.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ial-misconduct

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 28th Sep 2019 at 05:27.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 07:44
  #10694 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting comments from Sir Peter Fahey, ex-Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police, on the Radio 4 'Today' Programme a short while ago, when discussing the sort of problems the police could face in an upcoming election or even referendum: "... it will be a huge challenge because of the atmosphere that we have at the moment, I don't think that we'll see the sorts of protests that we see in France..." and then later "... in general I don't think that there is a tradition in this country, as there is in France, of peoples' discourse being taken into wider action on the streets and the police taking action accordingly...".

Keep Calm and Carry On.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 08:29
  #10695 (permalink)  
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Noel, in a wider sense I think he is right. Where we have experienced riots it seems more to do with exploitation by tea leaves taking the opportunity to loot.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 08:52
  #10696 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Coming soon ! ...the definitive media perspective of politics !.......one was an avid viewer last time, and will be again. Nice observation about Raab .....although he probably won't be too impressed.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...tin-zuckerberg

Meanwhile, for the contributor in particular who opined all this happened a couple of jobs ago....which is correct, it did, unfortunately ( for Boris ) others are not inclined to be so casually dismissive . There again, when it comes to "misconduct in the public office" , they might as well add his performance as PM to the referral.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ial-misconduct
It does seem strange that Boris found the need for these 'technical' sessions in the lady's apartment, when as Mayor he had a whole department of IT professionals available on the premises.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 09:08
  #10697 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It does seem strange that Boris found the need for these 'technical' sessions in the lady's apartment, when as Mayor he had a whole department of IT professionals available on the premises.
As I've said before, I freely admit my IT knowledge is limited, however, I am aware that both software and hardware need to be embedded at times.....

For those who are blissfully happy to feel riots in the UK are the exclusive province of the lower echelons of society intent on stealing, and we won't mention Grosvenor square at this point. here's a couple that seem to have been excluded from the pigeon post deliveries to Lincolnshire in the past......


The second shows those terribly upstanding and jolly splendid paragons of feudalism showing the finer points of their sociopathic tendencies when they realise they can no long indulge in a spot of gratuitous slaughter which they prefer to term "sport "....

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Old 28th Sep 2019, 09:16
  #10698 (permalink)  
 
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Noel Evans and PN - were either of you (or both) actively aware of what happened in the miners' strike, the Brixton riots, not to mention Grunwick et al?
I appreciate that a large proportion of Brits, particularly the English, doze their way through anything which doesn't affect house prices, the football or cricket scores or the size of the breasts visible in the pages of our leading political discussion documents, but I'm sure that I notice an increasing awareness of social issues. It might even be classed as anger and revulsion on both sides of the current 'debate'. While those latter traits can be considered undesirable they are a natural, and universal, response to what is perceived as 'unfairness'. That, unfortunately, just like the oft quoted (but NEVER defined) Democracy, will almost certainly be an unresolvable concept. Silly posters embodying the appeals of long-gone Military Leaders from a long-gone submissive age are as irrelevant as the supposition that 17.4 m represents a majority in a total population of 60+m. !!
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 09:26
  #10699 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
For those who are blissfully happy to feel riots in the UK are the exclusive province of the lower echelons of society intent on stealing, and we won't mention Grosvenor square at this point. here's a couple that seem to have been excluded from the pigeon post deliveries to Lincolnshire in the past......
That was a long time ago, most of those demonstrators must now be the age of the posters on this forum.
Oh, wait a minute...

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Old 28th Sep 2019, 09:54
  #10700 (permalink)  
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I think they are getting twitchy he really might have found a way around the Benn Act......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...dence-vote-snp

Johnson could face no-confidence vote next week to halt no-deal Brexit

There could be a vote of no confidence in the government next week in order to remove Boris Johnson as prime minister and secure a Brexit date extension, a senior Scottish National party MP has said.

Following talks between opposition party leaders at Westminster, Stewart Hosie said the move appeared to be the only way of ensuring Johnson did not push through a no-deal Brexit on 31 October.

“We have to do that because there is now no confidence that the prime minister will obey the law and seek the extension that parliament voted for only a few weeks ago,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.“If we are serious about the extension, that is the only game in town.”........

Hosie said it was a short-term procedure to get an extension to article 50 and then have a general election.

Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has said she is open-minded about Corbyn becoming an interim prime minister, in order to secure an extension to Brexit and call a general election. She told BBC Scotland: “We are all going to have to compromise, we are all going to have to swallow our pride and put up with something for a matter of days to allow that to happen, and get on with it.”

Her representative in Westminster, Ian Blackford, said the SNP was “desperate” for an election.......

Last edited by ORAC; 28th Sep 2019 at 10:05.
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