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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 26th Sep 2019, 00:26
  #10621 (permalink)  
 
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 00:39
  #10622 (permalink)  
 
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However much this judgment ultimately may lead to a result that I am very much in favour of, it doesn't change my opinion that it is bad law and is being recognised as such within the legal profession.

But as mentioned at the time a majority government could if desired bring about a law preventing this happening again and limiting the judicial scope in these situations.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 08:30
  #10623 (permalink)  
 
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Effluent Man: Totally agree with your comment re Johnson's behaviour in the House last night. When a female member appeals to him to moderate his language as she is in fear of a ratcheting up of threats of sexual assault and even death, and he responds by writing off her complaints as "a load of humbug", he demonstrates quite clearly what a bloody cowboy he really is. Totally unfit to lead a country. Meanwhile, as I write this, James Cleverly is on Radio 4, giving the most bumbling, ducking and diving interview I have heard in a long time.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 09:13
  #10624 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Disgraceful behaviour by Pfeffel tonight. Bullying female members and encouraging violence. I can see the strategy. It is to appeal to Brexit voting Wetherspoons habitués. It might work a bit, but it's a further step along the road to worshipping hooliganism.
I also agree, I watched the whole thing live on TV. Depressing. Parliament reduced to a bad Grange Hill like soap opera. It's going to be a long road back to any sort of 'intelligent' debate and a working system.*
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 09:57
  #10625 (permalink)  
 
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So they all rushed back for that yesterday.

They choose to interpret things as they see it from their "side" and then scream at anyone who disagrees. Just seemed like everyone wanted to score playground points.

Bercow welcomed back everyone to their place of work but what did they actually achieve yesterday.

Cannot any of them see that no progress has been made over the last 3 years?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:08
  #10626 (permalink)  
 
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They were all as bad as each other, to simply single out one person is wrong, the problem I see with Parliament is it is no longer about getting a deal or a no deal, it is about each one of them fighting for their jobs, what the heck is the point in having a slanging match all day over the proroguing of Parliament? it serves no purpose what so ever, it has been deemed unlawful and has been cancelled, have a ten minutes debate on it saying it was wrong etc and then move on to actually running the Country instead of acting like the crowd at a football match ( and I do the crowd at the match a diservice.)

I agree with the Conservatives, this needs a General Election to sort it out, the results as no doubt Brexit will be a part of the electioneering will bring about in essence a second referendum on the subject, because at the moment there isn't a Government that can run the Country, it has had that power stripped from it by losing its majority.
I also see why the opposition are against it, they are likely to get slaughtered at the polls, as no doubt the independant polls they all run are showing they are going to lose seats. but that again is putting themselves at the front of their argument, not the Country.
But that is simply what it needs, and election to break the deadlock, and before you go on about crashing out etc, they had the opportunity a week ago to have and hold an election before that happens and they chose not too using the poor excuse in my eyes that the Conservatives would not honour the date, something they stood up and said they would. They had a deal put to them, they chose not to accept that either.
A referendum is NOT the way forward, that would simply bring about further calls for another if it swung the other way and where would you stop, a fifth or sixth one? and as for the peoples representatives chamber etc.... we have one one already, it's called Parliament.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:41
  #10627 (permalink)  
 
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Bullying female members and encouraging violence.
Totally agree with your comment re Johnson's behaviour
​​​​​​​I also agree
Do you really? I mean honestly?

I understand that politics has descended (mainly driven by a media hungry for outrage) into this tribal thing where each side pretends to be horrified and offended in order to get someone on the other team sacked but this is, even by current standards, a mountain out of a molehill.

Johnson was replying to a certain female MP who decided to bring Jo Cox into the argument in order to score cheap points.In recent weeks we have seen Boris effigies being beheaded onstage and hung from a bridge, no outrage from the left, McDonnell inciting violence towards tory politicians, no outrage from the left. Bo#@ocks to Brext actually used as a campaign slogan, Boris being constantly labelled fascist, racist, etc. etc.

He used the word 'humbug' and they have all gone berserk. Can we please stop this faux outrage by grown adults pretending to be offended.

Nobody should be receiving death threats or threats of violence just for doing their job but I fail to see how Boris telling the women who tried to bring JC's murder into the argument that she was talking humbug is in any way inciting that.

I would also suggest that those very same MP's sitting in London with their large expense accounts miles from their constituency refusing to listen to the voters they claim to represent and working hard to thwart that vote is more of a reason for them receiving threats than anything Boris is saying. If they are that sensitive that his words are offending them then not only are they in the wrong job but they will be in for a very rude awakening when they start going back to their constituency and knocking on doors asking those whose vote they have ignored to vote for them in a GE.
​​​​​​​
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:42
  #10628 (permalink)  
 
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It's telling that one of the most prolific and aggressive pro Brexit posters opens with "they were all as bad as each other" I rest my case.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:52
  #10629 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
Do you really? I mean honestly?
Yes.

What does the size of their expense account have to do with anything? Businesses also provide large expense accounts for employees. The difference is that business have standards that employees have to meet, otherwise they are dismissed.


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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:56
  #10630 (permalink)  
 
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I agree 100% with you felixflyer. As for EF, the guy didn't even have the gumption to vote yet comes here every day to tell us who did how wrong we are! Bad as "That other chap" Pace who also didn't vote.

If you want to see an MP with real rage and hatred, then watch Barry Sheerman in the house yesterday.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:05
  #10631 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
It's telling that one of the most prolific and aggressive pro Brexit posters opens with "they were all as bad as each other" I rest my case.



I am aggressive? Ha ha, that's a new one on me.



Come the revolution, you vill be ze first up against zer vall.....
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:08
  #10632 (permalink)  
 
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What does the size of their expense account have to do with anything?
Is that all you took out of my post? It matters a lot as that is how MP's are viewed by the voting public. When they also not only refuse to enact their constituents vote but work hard to have it overturned then they are asking to be booted out at the next election.

They know this which is why they are so scared of an election. They will find out what the voters think of them when it finally happens.

It is telling that they are now moving from wanting a GE and 2nd ref to just campaigning for revoke. I know loads of leave voters but not one who has changed their minds. I do however know many remainers that are so disgusted with the way our democracy has been cast aside by those we charge with carrying it out that they will vote leave. I believe and I think they know, that a 2nd ref now would be a landslide victory for leave.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:26
  #10633 (permalink)  
 
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The whole thing is a disgrace. We have remainers, soft brexiteers and hard brexiteers and 2 have to combine to get resolution. Then we have Labour, LD ( trade description act may not apply) and Conservatives, another unholy trio. Then there is the SNP who are willing to prostitute everything in their pursuit of independence ( a government which doesn't acknowledge the result of a remain plebiscite, unlike the UK which has a parliament......). An election would give us this menagerie plus a brexit party rump. Still two or more of the circus would have to co-operate. Even acknowledging the misnomer, would the LDs sit comfortably with a hard left Labour government?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:27
  #10634 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by felixflyer View Post
It matters a lot as that is how MP's are viewed by the voting public..
Agree completely. I expect my MP to behave in a professional manner, not like he is in the crowd at a football match. I expect a degree of intelligent debate on crucial issues. I expect awkward questions to be answered with facts to counter flaws in argument.

Regardless of which tribe was shouting, I witnessed none of that last night, or indeed for the past few years.

This house needs to be reformed to be fit for purpose in the modern world. Our MPs also need to be fit for purpose. Parliament, like it or not, is a workplace and standards relating to procedure and process need to be updated to the 21st century.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:27
  #10635 (permalink)  
 
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​​​​​​​NutLoose Aggressive: Done in a forceful or determined way. I would contend that sums up your posting on Brexit. I certainly didn't mean that you were a pugilist. If you took it that way then I apologise.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:34
  #10636 (permalink)  
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Just by way of a slight diversion ..." the age of austerity is over " ( or words to that effect, c Treeza May ).......

Apart from these locations that is........
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49812519
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:53
  #10637 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
They were all as bad as each other, to simply single out one person is wrong, .

Sorry, no, all IMVHO etc, and I hate to disagree but like others I watched the "debate" live last night and Johnson's attitude and behaviour was simply horrific.... he deserves all the singling out he is getting today.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:57
  #10638 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
​​​​​​​NutLoose Aggressive: Done in a forceful or determined way. I would contend that sums up your posting on Brexit. I certainly didn't mean that you were a pugilist. If you took it that way then I apologise.
Ok, you can be second up against zer vall...
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 12:11
  #10639 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
Agree completely. I expect my MP to behave in a professional manner, not like he is in the crowd at a football match. I expect a degree of intelligent debate on crucial issues. I expect awkward questions to be answered with facts to counter flaws in argument.

Regardless of which tribe was shouting, I witnessed none of that last night, or indeed for the past few years.

This house needs to be reformed to be fit for purpose in the modern world. Our MPs also need to be fit for purpose. Parliament, like it or not, is a workplace and standards relating to procedure and process need to be updated to the 21st century.

well said - yesterday was a disgrace
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 13:22
  #10640 (permalink)  
 
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From The Independent, 26 Sept 2019;

Boris Johnson’s ‘crass and dangerous’ rhetoric will fuel violence on UK’s streets, warns EU Commissioner
This isn't some mainland rabid Europhile, this is the UK's own European Commissioner, Sir Julian Beresford King KCVO CMG appointed by a previous Tory PM, David Cameron.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9120966.html

JAS
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