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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 24th Sep 2019, 18:23
  #10561 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
The arguments will roll on and on; views, on both sides, are too entrenched to allow of a reasoned or logical view. The Supreme Court was established to provide a final arbiter on matters of Public concern and it would be difficult to argue against their relevance in this instance. Much of the vituperation directed against them ignores their combined experience. That experience derives from their ages and thereby lies a clue as to the unanimity of their pronouncement. They (as am Id) are old enough to have either experienced or been well versed in the events of early 30s Germany. For those of you who are not, I recommend Count Harry Kessler's Diary of that period and the years before and after. The antics of the present so-called Government are much too reminiscent of political manoeuvring at that time to allow of comfortable acceptance. Racial phobias, Nationalistic extreme jingoism ... it's not new and it's as dangerous now as it was then. A dog-loving, vegetarian couldn't be a problem - could he? (maybe a dog-loving carnivore?)
i agree with that, it's just did anyone foresee having judges ruling on items they are involved in by the fact they all hold peerages and are at the heart of the establishment they are judging on, that to me just comes over as a conflict of interests.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 18:24
  #10562 (permalink)  
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Worth a mention here, given her deserved reputation and today's findings.

Has already attracted condemnation from the ever self righteous indignation of the Mail, so possibly more to come from the rag tomorrow.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019...iers-judiciary
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 18:34
  #10563 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
What does ensure is that, since the SC has stepped into politics, politics will step into the SC. It means that, inevitably, Parliament will demand a voice and scrutiny of all future appointments to the SC in the same manner as occurs in the USA.

Perhaps it was always inevitable, but it will now happen much sooner.
But in all likelyhood, Bozza won't be driving that bus.

CG
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 18:37
  #10564 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
Just thinking.

Can Boris not appeal to the H of Lords? I thought they were the ultimate court in the uK
No. The SC is the highest appeal court in the land. House of Lords used to be.

CG
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 18:40
  #10565 (permalink)  
 
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I see that the AG has gone under the bus in order that the Cummings Crew can say Boris, 'acted in good faith, and on legal advice'. Shirley could only have come from Downing Street?

CG
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 20:55
  #10566 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Worth a mention here, given her deserved reputation and today's findings.

Has already attracted condemnation from the ever self righteous indignation of the Mail, so possibly more to come from the rag tomorrow.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019...iers-judiciary
Must say I love her beautiful spider broach.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 21:00
  #10567 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Must say I love her beautiful spider broach.
Yes - a lovely, ironic choice. Quite deliberate, I'd say. Good on her.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 21:02
  #10568 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
I see that the AG has gone under the bus in order that the Cummings Crew can say Boris, 'acted in good faith, and on legal advice'. Shirley could only have come from Downing Street?

CG
Always felt Cummins became PM. Johnson merely Popo The Puppet.

Last edited by sixchannel; 24th Sep 2019 at 21:33.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 06:44
  #10569 (permalink)  
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It was always going to be interesting as to how certain rags reported yesterdays ( unanimous.....just thought I'd mention that rather salient word ) decision.

The Mail is in third place here....followed by the Sun. Who would have guessed so many of the readership were capable of dialling a phone number !....but, the undisputed winner ?....step forward the Excess with headlines that will shurely resonate with so many on here......whilst happily ignoring the fact Boris hasn't exactly come out of this smelling of roses, only the substance that, ostensibly, sticks to shovels and comes in useful for growing roses

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-49820055
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 06:46
  #10570 (permalink)  
 
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charliegolf: It is ironic you should use the Boris and buses metaphor. The company in N. Ireland that builds the so-called "Boris bus" is about to go bust.
Orac: This "Supreme Court interfering in politics" mantra is totally bogus. Are you suggesting that Parliament and its members should be immune to the law? That sounds awfully like dictatorships past and present around the world. And you know, as we all do, that the Supreme Court ruled not on the politics but on the legality of the government's actions. I hope that soon we may see another court ruling on the legality of Boris's actions vis a vis a bit of American crumpet.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 07:01
  #10571 (permalink)  
 
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I see this quote is doing the rounds this AM..

What now? We have been used to freedom for a long time. You know we can't have freedom without a rule of law. This is a thing I'm always saying to countries who come out of tyranny. You can't have unconstrained freedom, you have to have a rule of law. And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say, well we've got a lot of regulations, the government makes them, the government dictates to us. That's not what a rule of law is, I say. It's having wise judges who decide fairly and whose decisions are taken and honoured. It's having your laws made in a parliament which is accountable to the people and which you know are going to be honourably administered. That's why we don't just call it law, we call it a rule of law. You cannot have freedom without a rule of law, and that is the most difficult thing, I think, to get into countries that have never known it. And if you don't have it, what you tend to get is corruption and that is death to freedom, it's death to truth, it's death to honour, it's death to democracy. We need to bring over to the West people from countries who have not known a rule of law, who have not known independent judges, who have not known the free debate that we have, we should bring them over so that they can, in fact, see what happens in this country.
It's part of this speech..........

https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/108365
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 07:54
  #10572 (permalink)  
 
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So, Parliament recalled. For what? To spend another three years telling each other what they donít want? With a collective uselessness crossing all political boundaries. Lets send every last one of them to cleaning duties in the nearby hospital.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 08:09
  #10573 (permalink)  
 
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That is typical of those who don't understand the workings of parliament. But if you send people a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma don't be surprised if you don't get a sensible answer. And don't forget that if you do get an answer it is now very likely to be the one in response to the question asked by Theresa May and not answered then by Boris, JRM and the political amoeba such as Francois and Bridgen.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:06
  #10574 (permalink)  
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Orac: This "Supreme Court interfering in politics" mantra is totally bogus.
Charles Day (the pseudonym for their legal commentator, a QC,) in the Spectator, doesnít agree. And there is fevered discussion on many legal and constitutional blogs.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...ional-outrage/
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:15
  #10575 (permalink)  
 
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An unwritten constitution has many advantages - such as flexibility - but it depends on people agreeing the unwritten ground rules

when someone comes in who is determined to do what they want whatever the cost the wheels come off
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:22
  #10576 (permalink)  
 
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There's always the favourite leavers phrase to fall back on....'you lost, get over it.'
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:25
  #10577 (permalink)  
 
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From an engineering viewpoint an unwritten constitution does not exist.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:25
  #10578 (permalink)  
 
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Supreme Court interfering in politics : pity this objection wasn't raised before the case was brought before the Supreme Court, and not after the judgment.

Had the ruling be different, would have the Court "interfered" ?
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:27
  #10579 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
So, Parliament recalled. For what? To spend another three years telling each other what they donít want? With a collective uselessness crossing all political boundaries. Lets send every last one of them to cleaning duties in the nearby hospital.
They are funded by us, the taxpayers.

A very, very large number of MPs could be seen as "Benefit Scroungers" who are simply attempting to delay the day that they loose their 'benefits'.

Cleaning duties in the nearby hospital would be seen by many as far more productive work than they are doing now for their existing huge remuneration that is paid by us, the taxpayers. And they would have to do a lot of cleaning to 'pay back' their existing MP's salary (which is about five times a hospital cleaner's pay).
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:30
  #10580 (permalink)  
 
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Much as I don't like Corbyn as Labour party leader, I have to say, in his defence, he is the only politician thus far to have come up with a sensible proposal re the Brexit/Referendum conundrum. He is proposing his party would negotiate with the EU, then return to the UK and have a referendum with 2 choices; 1) Exit the EU under the terms tentatively agreed with the EU (and ensuring the terms are spelled out to the electorate) and 2) Cancel the whole thing, remain within the UE (and ensuring the consequences of remaining are spelled out to the electorate).
Media savages and party hacks refer to this as being uncommitted or unable to make up his mind. These people are crying that Labour should adopt a Go/Leave stance and fight a General Election on that basis. At least Corbyn's proposal will have the electorate telling the politicians what to do, rather than the other option which will have the politicians telling us what to do. And, it seems to me, was the political mindset that got us into the current chaos.
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