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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 18th Sep 2019, 13:33
  #10341 (permalink)  
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I would be very surprised if Boris was not fluent in French. Remember he would have been addressing his domestic audience not continental. What would have been the point of trying to shout down a mob?

Who were these demonstrators? Were they locals telling him to get out or British telling him to remain?
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 14:01
  #10342 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I would be very surprised if Boris was not fluent in French. Remember he would have been addressing his domestic audience not continental. What would have been the point of trying to shout down a mob?

Who were these demonstrators? Were they locals telling him to get out or British telling him to remain?
We shall probably never know as Boris was not willing to face them. He does, of course, have form in this department. Witness his exit from Bute House a few weeks ago.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 16:12
  #10343 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Who were these demonstrators? Were they locals telling him to get out or British telling him to remain?
It seems (from what I've seen being put out by the expats networks and support groups) that the crowd of roughly a hundred or less mainly consisted of EU resident British Citizens who are heartily hacked off at the uncertainty Brexit has introduced into their lives. For example for the expats living in Luxembourg even little changes, such as the potential loss of FOM for Brits across the internal EU Borders is something of a big deal, so I'm not surprised at the tone of Boris's welcome.


MSM piece on the motives of the "mob" here..

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-boris-johnson

Such people are almost unique in getting precious little sympathy from either side of the debate. They are crudely caricatured either as rabidly rightwing pensioners sunning themselves on the Costa Brava, who probably backed Brexit anyway and are only now grasping the consequences, or as Dordogne-dwelling chatterati hopelessly out of touch with how their compatriots back home feel. But the estimated 1.3 million Britons who live in the EU aren’t cartoon characters. They’re human beings, who moved abroad for love or work or the chance of a better life, and never expected to be hung out to dry for it. No wonder they are taking it personally.

Last edited by wiggy; 18th Sep 2019 at 16:49.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 16:18
  #10344 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
What would have been the point of trying to shout down a mob?
Demonstrate his worth and statesmanship ?
Go up to the gate, address the shouting (and safely kept behind bars) mob, and subjugate them with is confident and deeply considered arguments and dign containance. And ask them to please respect his honourable Luxemburger host and not embarrass him with shouts about British domestic disputes...

Who were these demonstrators? Were they locals telling him to get out or British telling him to remain?
Press says they were British nationals residing in Europe.
Anyway, chances are that people booing a minister in English might also be reasonably fluent in English...

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Old 18th Sep 2019, 16:45
  #10345 (permalink)  
 
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It was clear right from the start that there was no possibility of conducting any announcement against a bunch of heavily- amplified yahoos. There was no question of debating anything outside. The refusal of the Luxembourg PM, whose name I’ve already forgotten, to relocate only demonstrates either gallopingly poor judgement by him, or calculated stage-managed rudeness.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 16:50
  #10346 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
It seems (from what I've seen being put out by the expats networks and support groups) that the crowd of roughly a hundred or less mainly consisted of EU resident British Citizens who are heartily hacked off at the uncertainty Brexit has introduced into their lives. For example for the expats living in Luxembourg even little changes, such as the potential loss of FOM for Brits across the internal EU Borders is something of a big deal, so I'm not surprised at the tone of Boris's welcome.

Do you really believe that EU members will put up internal border checks just for UK citizens? Once you are inside the EU or at least those who have signed up to the Schengen Agreement, then there are no border controls between them, the only border controls are for entering/leaving the EU (Schengen area).
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 17:17
  #10347 (permalink)  
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By way of an entertaining diversion, here's a former political party several on here were adamant would ascend to the heights and be a force to be reckoned with.....alas.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...erence-no-show
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 17:27
  #10348 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golfbananajam View Post
Do you really believe that EU members will put up internal border checks just for UK citizens? Once you are inside the EU or at least those who have signed up to the Schengen Agreement, then there are no border controls between them, the only border controls are for entering/leaving the EU (Schengen area).
No they won't, but this isn't about hoping over the border to do a bit of shopping or holiday and chancing being stopped at a random check.

Believe or not there's much more to FOM than just crossing borders on jolly jaunts, for many UK expats it is the freedom to work across the EU that is essential.

ATM a Brit living in say France, has the right to work in Spain. ATM a Brit living in Luxembourg has the right to cross the border daily to work in Germany. Lose FOM and that automatic right goes for the Brits overnight.

It is looking as if at best we might get the ability to live and work in one specified EU27 country, but will be treated as a third party national if we try to work in another EU27 country. So for example an Brit expat might end up with a "permit" which post Brexit allows them to live and work in France only....Bit of a sod if they live in France but currently work in Germany. Putting in place (or not) Border posts/checks are pretty much irrelevant to that scenario, the "catch" will be that the EU27 employer will have ensure their employees are legal from an ability to work in the host country/immigration POV...

This problem was aired here a year or two back and of course shouted down as being "project fear"by some of our now departed experts ...yet along comes the realpolitik and here we are again. That's why the UK expats in smaller states, or living and/or working on or near internal orders, and/or needing to be mobile across EU Borders for work purposes have got a head of steam up about this issue.

Last edited by wiggy; 18th Sep 2019 at 17:38.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 17:42
  #10349 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
It was clear right from the start that there was no possibility of conducting any announcement against a bunch of heavily- amplified yahoos.
Well done for demonstrating what the Guardian piece described as the expats being "crudely caricatured either as rabidly rightwing pensioners sunning themselves on the Costa Brava, who probably backed Brexit anyway and are only now grasping the consequences, or as Dordogne-dwelling chatterati"

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Old 18th Sep 2019, 17:59
  #10350 (permalink)  

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Boris-ing beyond belief !
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 18:56
  #10351 (permalink)  
 
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We need a General Election. The current lot have got nowhere with anything. We need the fresh start that a General Election could give us, whatever that 'fresh start' may be. Why have MPs denied us that opportunity twice in the past few weeks? Maybe it's because they realise that many (most?) of them will lose out on that cushy pay and expenses, so they don't want to allow us to make those choices?
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 19:19
  #10352 (permalink)  
 
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Downing Street has described as “nonsense” a report in the Financial Times that Johnson turned to his chief negotiator, David Frost, and the Brexit secretary, Stephen Barclay, and said: “So you’re telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”
But senior EU sources confirmed that Johnson had expressed surprise during the lunch at the complexity of the situation, and that it appeared to have been a “bit of a reality check to hear it from EU officials”.
Boris Johnson given two-week EU deadline for Irish backstop plan | Politics | The Guardian

.. a man well up on his brief..
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 19:29
  #10353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
It was clear right from the start that there was no possibility of conducting any announcement against a bunch of heavily- amplified yahoos. There was no question of debating anything outside. The refusal of the Luxembourg PM, whose name I’ve already forgotten, to relocate only demonstrates either gallopingly poor judgement by him, or calculated stage-managed rudeness.
ShotOne, just to remind you that was a press conference, not de debate, which had to take place.
It may surprise you to learn that on the Continent and in many countries in the world, it is considered rude and bad mannered to leave your PM or President host just at the moment of delivering a joint press conference.

There are standards of diplomacy, courtliness and sheer politeness that your country seems to be forgetting, judging by the politician you chose to support.
Any second tier politician elsewhere would have managed the situation with mastery, elegance and a degree of courage this BJ type does seem to be lacking.
So please, try to refrain from blaming Europe for the misconduct and cowardice of this dubious character of a PM you got yourself.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 19:31
  #10354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
We need a General Election. The current lot have got nowhere with anything. We need the fresh start that a General Election could give us, whatever that 'fresh start' may be. Why have MPs denied us that opportunity twice in the past few weeks? Maybe it's because they realise that many (most?) of them will lose out on that cushy pay and expenses, so they don't want to allow us to make those choices?
OK I'll bite,

if the opposition(s) vote for a GE now, the government can determine the date. Anytime after 31 Oct and we're already out.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 20:31
  #10355 (permalink)  
 
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They were given the option of the 15th Oct. But they denied us that opportunity by not voting. How did your MP vote (or not vote!)? See: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49639487.
We need rid of most of that bunch of clowns. The sooner the better.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 20:39
  #10356 (permalink)  
 
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Fly Aiprt, just to remind you that there was never the slightest chance of a sensibly conducted press conference amongst the loud-hailer rabble. This is just stating the obvious, not blaming Europe. That M. Bettel tried to force his guest into such a pantomime suggests he has either impaired hearing or oafish bad manners.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 20:40
  #10357 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Why have MPs denied us that opportunity twice in the past few weeks?
I'm sure you do know the answer to that really, it is pretty well inconceivable that anybody doesn't.

(For the benefit of any Martians who might be reading this, MPs don't want a no-deal crash-out, so they are doing their best to make sure that parliament isn't closed down over the end of October, for a general election or for any other reason.)
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 20:45
  #10358 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
It was clear right from the start that there was no possibility of conducting any announcement against a bunch of heavily- amplified yahoos. There was no question of debating anything outside. The refusal of the Luxembourg PM, whose name I’ve already forgotten, to relocate only demonstrates either gallopingly poor judgement by him, or calculated stage-managed rudeness.
Did you actually hear the Luxembourg PM's speech? It was perfectly clear over the lectern microphone and the demonstrators were lost in the background. Boris would have been heard perfectly well.
Even Theresa May would have stood there and carried out her duty, but the cowardly Johnson thought that he could hide away and stop the discussion. He failed.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 21:01
  #10359 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
They were given the option of the 15th Oct.
...with no guarantee that the gov wouldn't change it!
Please go Google 'elephant trap'.
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Old 18th Sep 2019, 21:06
  #10360 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Even Theresa May would have stood there and carried out her duty, but the cowardly Johnson thought that he could hide away and stop the discussion. He failed.
Only if she had been programmed to do so....
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