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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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Old 4th Nov 2018, 23:46
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
You mean like why the BBC has never asked this arseh*ole to explain his Damascus moment.....

I'd be the very last person to defend the illegal warmonger Blair, but I think even he is allowed to his change his mind on a subject after more than 30 years.
It only took Teresa May a few months to change her mind about Brexit. Was she wrong too?
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 06:00
  #82 (permalink)  
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The iconic inspiration for so many of the chaps on here, and we can only imagine the anguish that prevailed when he announced his retirement, offers his own inimitable view on UK society and politics......

Any of you care to admit you have a signed photograph and / or a figurine in a little shrine where you can worship this deity with the reverence you feel should accorded to this "voice of the people ".......( Terms and Conditions, living standards, financial status and similar criteria apply )

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...g-media-speech
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 07:32
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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It is all very well ranting against Mr. Banks but he is merely subject of an investigation. So far he has done nothing wrong, under the terms of our "innocent until proved guilty" for of law.
Meanwhile, there is currently one MP standing trial for election campaign financial irregularities in the Crown Court; Craig McKinley. He and his agents are accused of fiddling campaign related expenses during the 2015 general election. Isn't that perhaps where our attention should be focused?
By the way, I am not a supporter of Mr Banks. I just thought it might be right to point out the disparity in reporting the 2 cases.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 10:00
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'd be the very last person to defend the illegal warmonger Blair, but I think even he is allowed to his change his mind on a subject after more than 30 years.
It only took Teresa May a few months to change her mind about Brexit. Was she wrong too?

From events over the past couple of years, I'm with those who think that PM May hasn't really changed her mind at all.

But just pointing out that the BBC and others have never asked Blair to explain when and why, although knowing what an utter self-aggrandising tw^t Blair was and still is maybe he still sees bleating on about another referendum as the best way to further his own self-importance. After all, he has form......

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Old 5th Nov 2018, 12:55
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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The only people who never change their minds on anything are those who have no mind to change. It's easy to understand why the mindless contingent voted pfor leave, of course...

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Old 5th Nov 2018, 13:07
  #86 (permalink)  
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Which presupposes, if there is another referendum in Lilliput, that any first time remainer voters who change their minds and vote second time around to leave, will be changing their minds and thus using their intelligence. This will not be able to be said for any who voted to leave on the first time around and might vote to stay on the second time around. Those poor people have simply been bullied into their decision by a reign of terror that has not seen its equal emanate from France since the Terror.

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Old 5th Nov 2018, 13:59
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Nicely put PDR. : “I’m right and anyone who disagrees is just stupid”. Way to go!
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 14:10
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Nicely put PDR. : “I’m right and anyone who disagrees is just stupid”. Way to go!
Other opinions are available; we live in a democracyso people have a democratic right to be wrong.

PDR
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 15:03
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Other opinions are available; we live in a democracyso people have a democratic right to be wrong.

PDR
Extreme Brexiteers believe that democracy, and with it the right to change one's mind in the light of new information, was suspended at 10.00pm on 23.6.18. Extreme Remainers at least want to allow the public the right to do so, they aren't suggesting unilaterally cancelling Art 50 in the face of the 2016 result.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 15:28
  #90 (permalink)  
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Extreme winnersbelieve that democracy, and with it the right to change one's mind in the light of new information, was suspended at 10.00pm on 23.6.18. Extreme losers at least want to allow the public the right to do so, they aren't suggesting unilaterally cancelling Art 50 in the face of the 2016 result.

Does that make it clearer?

BTW this is also true:

Extreme winnersbelieve that democracy, and with it the right to change one's mind in the light of new information, was suspended at 10.00pm on 18.09.14. Extreme losers at least want to allow the public the right to do so.

Or should we have the Irish model with regular refereda until we reach the right decision?



​​​​​
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 16:11
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Extreme Brexiteers believe that democracy, and with it the right to change one's mind in the light of new information, was suspended at 10.00pm on 23.6.18. Extreme Remainers at least want to allow the public the right to do so.
Would you have been so obliging, though, if the result of the first referendum had been 52-% - 48% to remain?
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 16:16
  #92 (permalink)  
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I've always been a bit slow, and thick, so possibly it's my memory playing up again, but, I could have sworn in the past I heard phrases like, erm, "taking back control of our borders " for example ,,but obviously, this is just the Met happily squandering a mere £2.4m on a nice set of new offices, furniture and water coolers.....and probably carpets and flowers in the mezzanine along with soft music and a totally vegetarian staff restaurant .This to appease the JB fraternity who are convinced the police have an sedentary working life....

Nothing to worry about of course........


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...afety-net-unit

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Old 5th Nov 2018, 16:45
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Extreme Brexiteers believe that democracy, and with it the right to change one's mind in the light of new information, was suspended at 10.00pm on 23.6.18. Extreme Remainers at least want to allow the public the right to do so, they aren't suggesting unilaterally cancelling Art 50 in the face of the 2016 result.
I agree people can change their minds. Just answer the following; IF there was another vote and remain won, can those who voted leave expect another vote 1, 2 or 3 years later? There will always be a large % who wish the alternative result. At which point is a final vote held?
It was the MPs who voted for the referendum, the very ones that a lot of people are now saying should be listened too. The HOC voted overwhelmingly for the referendum act. Only 53 MPs did NOT vote for the referendum to take place. Do you seriously think that those figures will be so overwhelming again? How do you really think it looks when certain people say that we should ignore the result, especially after they allowed the public to have a say?
What is done is done.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 17:22
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Is the Met perhaps guilty of protesting too much? The Guardian article says that British police accessed the Schengen Information System 539M times in 2017. Really? The population of the EU is around this figure (ca 512M). So, has every EU citizen been through that mill at least once? Or have some persons been inquired after umpteen dozen times each?
If they are really so concerned about the possible movement of unwanted visitors, they could invest a couple of thousand quid to buy a warehouse full of old ZX80s and do some checking on either passenger manifests or passports presented at the borders.
I have a suspicion this is yet another in a long list of "the sky will fall in" ploys.
And I see the Irish are bleating loudly yet again. They seem to be making much of the Good Friday agreement and how a border will screw that up. How about we put in a border, whether the EU likes it or not, and merely wave citizens of both sides through? There is your freedom of movement for the citizens referred to in the Good Friday agreement.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 17:45
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Would you have been so obliging, though, if the result of the first referendum had been 52-% - 48% to remain?
Given a choice of saying:

(1) "Right, that's that sorted, we've now got a mandate to join Schengen and join the Euro and give up our rebate."

or

(2) "Whoops. that was a bit close, I think we have to take a serious look at the underlying problems here."

I think most remainers would have joined me in going for option (2).
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 17:50
  #96 (permalink)  

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I think that rather a lot of people who merrily voted leave, without understanding exactly what it would mean,
might well change their minds now that they are starting to understand what they are in for.

Much of it was sheer British bloody-mindedness, aggravated by a number of distinctly unwise EU decisions,
that Britain had a part in. Instead of pressurising the EU to think again, HMG/Cameron decided to throw all it's toys
out the cot and have a Referendum that it anticipated losing, but scaring the EU into cutting Britain a bit more slack.
Instead, the Referendum can up tails and the EU said, "Fine. you rosbifs were always whining so fckuck off!"

For Britain, a small collection of islands off the coast of Europe, to cut loose from its nearest trading partners and
go it alone (Empire, Dunkirk and "Britons are Best!") is exceedingly foolish, particularly with the USA in its present mood.

MPs of course vote for whatever will keep them in their Constituencies, with little regard for what is best for their Country.
And no, the EU will NOT give Britain a second chance, no matter how many desperate RE-JOIN! referenda there may be in the future.

de Gaulle was dead right.

Mac

“A little learning is a dangerous thing
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again."


:-( [and option 2 for me also]
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 18:32
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Given a choice of saying:

(1) "Right, that's that sorted, we've now got a mandate to join Schengen and join the Euro and give up our rebate."

or

(2) "Whoops. that was a bit close, I think we have to take a serious look at the underlying problems here."

I think most remainers would have joined me in going for option (2).
What? People had been saying for years about their concerns. Politics became very London centric. No one cared about areas with high unemployment, poor housing etc. With increased immigration, with a perceived bias towards housing priority, low paid wages, increased hospital waiting lists etc what part of the public saying this is unfair was difficult to understand?

As I have said before, don't blame those who voted leave, blame those who allowed the situation whereby some people felt that the only way to get their voices heard was to vote leave. There are now those who say that the vote should be overturned.

Do you seriously think that treating those who voted leave with such contempt will solve the problems? Because that is exactly the reason some people voted leave.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 19:12
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post




As I have said before, don't blame those who voted leave,
I don't. There's no shame in being conned, happens all the time. But you were conned. Johnson & Farage the Brexit conmen did you good style,

As for referendums, even ittby bitty Macedonia was smart enough to shoehorn in a threshold the last time they played the ask the people game & 52/48 is the living, breathing definition of a country not sure about this, mate, can we think about it?

And if it then turns out that highly targeted, aggressive advertising campaign designed specifically to hoover up that small cohort of floating voters who can swing these things was in fact backed by a Russian autocrat, highly motivated to divide & weaken a federation of states on his border, then what?
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 19:40
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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How many who voted remain were conned? In local or other elections a recount is sometimes required. Even though the result in the end is sometimes very small , the result stands. They don't rerun the election.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 19:44
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


What? People had been saying for years about their concerns. Politics became very London centric. No one cared about areas with high unemployment, poor housing etc. With increased immigration, with a perceived bias towards housing priority, low paid wages, increased hospital waiting lists etc what part of the public saying this is unfair was difficult to understand?

As I have said before, don't blame those who voted leave, blame those who allowed the situation whereby some people felt that the only way to get their voices heard was to vote leave. There are now those who say that the vote should be overturned.

Do you seriously think that treating those who voted leave with such contempt will solve the problems? Because that is exactly the reason some people voted leave.


Absolutely dead on the mark !

Exactly the same here.

And yet the alleged political cognoscenti are still scratching their heads wondering why LePen managed to get through to the second round. Endless philosophical discussion about whether 25% of those bothering to vote are really racist, when it is was blindingly obvious but mustn't be mentioned in public - she was the only one of the four who promised a referendum on leaving the EU !
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