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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 2nd Sep 2019, 19:24
  #9801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
As the polls stand it's quite simply a lottery. I think that I would rule out a Labour or LD outright win and almost certainly a Tory one unless they can get Nige onside. The Tory rebels represent a big problem. Rory Stewart, Philip Hammond, Antoinette Sandbach, and Philip Lee to name but four all had 60% of the vote in 2017. I wouldn't get against them surviving as Independents even assuming that the opposition don't go easy on them. I have voted Labour all my life but if one of the Tory rebels represented my constituency then I would support them.
ha,ha, one of those Tory rebels does represent my constituency and certainly wont be getting my vote, irrespective of whether as Tory or Indy!
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 19:25
  #9802 (permalink)  
 
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I personally think those MPs where there is a majority in their seats to leave, may find their future political life curtailed if we have an election. I also agree with the move, it puts any MP deciding to vote against party policy out in the cold and out of Parliament come September.

Agree re what was said regards the Brexit party, however that may depend on say the Conservatives possibly coming to an agreement not to stand in those areas where they are a minority but there was a majority to leave and where the sitting MP from whatever party has voted remain. That may open up seats to the Brexit party who will support the efforts to leave.

Whether you like BJ or not, he is sticking to his guns and is showing he is a savvy politician, the sweetners for policing, Education and the NHS he has already announced since taking power have already taken some of the wind out of that windbag Corbyns sails and have in effect reduced Labours possible electioneering arsenal of planned reforms they could have used in the forth coming election.

I for one think BJ is starting to show he is not the fool so many wrote him off to be.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 19:42
  #9803 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post


Whether you like BJ or not, he is sticking to his guns and is showing he is a savvy politician, the sweetners for policing, Education and the NHS he has already announced since taking power have already taken some of the wind out of that windbag Corbyns sails and have in effect reduced Labours possible electioneering arsenal of planned reforms they could have used in the forth coming election.

I for one think BJ is starting to show he is not the fool so many wrote him off to be.
That would be increasing policing back to 'almost' what it was before the Tories cut the numbers, giving the NHS the funding that it should have had in the first place, and everyone has been crying out for, and putting right the massive Tory cockup over regional education funding that has even got the blue counties annoyed.
The magic money tree must have bloomed early this year.

Well I don't know about you but I didn't get off the boat yesterday and I can spot a charlatan when I see one.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 19:54
  #9804 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
That would be increasing policing back to 'almost' what it was before the Tories cut the numbers, giving the NHS the funding that it should have had in the first place, and everyone has been crying out for, and putting right the massive Tory cockup over regional education funding that has even got the blue counties annoyed.
The magic money tree must have bloomed early this year.

Well I don't know about you but I didn't get off the boat yesterday and I can spot a charlatan when I see one.
Yes, but how many of those issues really resonate with enough of the electorate? And even the ones that do, whose to say the Tories will be held solely accountable for them? As a point of interest I wont be voting Tory either, but not because of their Brexit stance, or any of the issues you call out. My beef with them is their insistence on tearing up our countryside in pursuit of building 300k additional houses per annum, as well as potentially HS2.

Unfortunately for me there's really no natural home for a pro-Brexit, anti-globalist, eco-warrior!!
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 20:17
  #9805 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Nigel said earlier he would scrap HS2;
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...-it-to-win-it/
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 20:26
  #9806 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
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If there is a GE called then I will face a bit of a dilemma. I vowed that, after making one of the biggest voting errors of my life in 1979, I would NEVER, EVER, vote Conservative again. If there is a GE called shortly, then, although the LibDems have some policies that are closest to those I'd support, I simply cannot vote for a party that is intent on overturning the will of the people. Voting Labour is unthinkable, apart from being a wasted vote here, anyway. That means I will probably have to swallow my pride and vote Conservative, solely because, although I loathe BJ, he is really the least worst choice.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 20:31
  #9807 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
If there is a GE called then I will face a bit of a dilemma. I vowed that, after making one of the biggest voting errors of my life in 1979, I would NEVER, EVER, vote Conservative again. If there is a GE called shortly, then, although the LibDems have some policies that are closest to those I'd support, I simply cannot vote for a party that is intent on overturning the will of the people. Voting Labour is unthinkable, apart from being a wasted vote here, anyway. That means I will probably have to swallow my pride and vote Conservative, solely because, although I loathe BJ, he is really the least worst choice.
You are not required to vote. If you really donít like any of them, why vote for any of them?
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 20:57
  #9808 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post


You are not required to vote. If you really donít like any of them, why vote for any of them?
Principally because I feel very strongly that everyone should vote. I'd like to see a system like they have elsewhere (Australia?) where voting is mandatory. One problem with not voting is that, if enough people choose not to vote, our government will be chosen only by those who hold extreme views, and I don't think extreme views are the way to best choose those who govern us.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:15
  #9809 (permalink)  
 
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I too have had the vote conundrum, prior to the May debacle my vote would have gone to Brexit, however I have always been a staunch Conservative voter and my MP Andrew Bridgen has from the start been a staunch Brexiteer and that is where my dilemma came in with May, I would have rather voted against my party to get shot of her' but now I feel confident I can support my MP.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:21
  #9810 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
That would be increasing policing back to 'almost' what it was before the Tories cut the numbers, giving the NHS the funding that it should have had in the first place, and everyone has been crying out for, and putting right the massive Tory cockup over regional education funding that has even got the blue counties annoyed.
The magic money tree must have bloomed early this year.

Well I don't know about you but I didn't get off the boat yesterday and I can spot a charlatan when I see one.
Yes I realise that, but what I was getting across was he is addressing it and bolstering public opinion by addressing their concerns and at the same time taking the wind out of Labours possible campaign points.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:30
  #9811 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Principally because I feel very strongly that everyone should vote. I'd like to see a system like they have elsewhere (Australia?) where voting is mandatory. One problem with not voting is that, if enough people choose not to vote, our government will be chosen only by those who hold extreme views, and I don't think extreme views are the way to best choose those who govern us.
That would only work for me if there was a 'none of the above' option on the ballot form. Why should I be forced by law to vote for a candidate or party that I do not believe is fit to run the country?


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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:30
  #9812 (permalink)  
 
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if you don't vote then you shouldn't have a say on any political debates etc, one would love to know how many of those bitching about leaving on TV etc actually voted on the referendum. I bet quite a few didn't then objected to the result and are now complaining.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:31
  #9813 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Principally because I feel very strongly that everyone should vote. I'd like to see a system like they have elsewhere (Australia?) where voting is mandatory. One problem with not voting is that, if enough people choose not to vote, our government will be chosen only by those who hold extreme views, and I don't think extreme views are the way to best choose those who govern us.
Much as I think the right to vote for all citizens is a key principal, I think the right not to vote just as important. It can act as a vote of no confidence and a measure of engagement (or otherwise) amongst the electorate. Mandatory voting would otherwise give a false impression of confidence in parties and politics for which there was no real basis.

Bicycle helmets are also mandatory in at least one Australian state. Maybe they like things being mandatory. The Netherlands takes a more relaxed view on the matter. And more people ride bikes.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:37
  #9814 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
if you don't vote then you shouldn't have a say on any political debates etc, one would love to know how many of these bitching about leaving on TV etc actually voted on the referendum. I bet quite a few didn't then objected to the result and are now complaining.
But I don't have any say on "any political debates etc."
The ballot box is the only way I have that, apart from arguing on pointless debates like this one which has no influence whatever.

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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:40
  #9815 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Well the plan the 'strategy' is now quite clear. As soon as BJ opened his mouth and started making his promises and repeating his lies outside Number 10. You could see it was an election speech. No surprise that. It was strictly aimed at the electorate.

Dominic Cummins is doing a great job keeping him on message and rest of the cabinet. Someone earlier suggested BJ has turned out to be a 'savvy politician'. That's hilarious. I don't know if there's a single savvy member of the cabinet. Cummings on the other hand is giving us all a masterclass in spin. He's just on the cusp of delivering a no deal Brexit, something no one voted for and most people don't want.

That's the endgame but only if they win the election and that's a big if. But it'll be a slick campaign, lots of simplistic slogans. Emphasis on BJs personality and Corbyn's lack thereof.

Interesting few weeks ahead.

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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:45
  #9816 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Does this not change the legal position, such that there is now an obligation on the government to leave, and hence the electorate have acquired a legal right to expect that the government will carry through on the action they have started?
Dunno. If it comes to it I'm sure there will be crowdfunders, so we can each join in on our preferred side of the case.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:48
  #9817 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
if you don't vote then you shouldn't have a say on any political debates etc, one would love to know how many of those bitching about leaving on TV etc actually voted on the referendum. I bet quite a few didn't then objected to the result and are now complaining.
Not to inferfere with a discussion on domestic elections, but as Torquetalk said the right to vote is inseparable from the right not to vote.
Otherwise it is not a right, it is an obligation.
But of course other countries, other ways.

There's a children's game : "You must answer : would you prefer having arms 10 ft long, or rather have teeth made of wood ? Do answer !"
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 21:48
  #9818 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
As the polls stand it's quite simply a lottery. I think that I would rule out a Labour or LD outright win and almost certainly a Tory one unless they can get Nige onside. The Tory rebels represent a big problem. Rory Stewart, Philip Hammond, Antoinette Sandbach, and Philip Lee to name but four all had 60% of the vote in 2017. I wouldn't get against them surviving as Independents even assuming that the opposition don't go easy on them. I have voted Labour all my life but if one of the Tory rebels represented my constituency then I would support them.
This evening's local party exec had its agenda largely hijacked by general election planning, to nobody's surprise.

You might think it easier to decide what to do about Heidi Allen (the next door constituency to ours) than those you listed ... but if there are cross-party deals being done in Westminster they haven't filtered down to local level yet.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 22:14
  #9819 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 68
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Labour just changed the game. It looks as if they have taken Blair's advice and won't agree to a GE. Pundits saying that this puts Pfeffel in a spot.
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 22:53
  #9820 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
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Just for information, you are not forced to vote in Australia. You are required to attend a polling station.
The voting paper is given to you, but you can fold it unmarked and put it in the ballot box if you so wish.
As it is a secret ballot, no one sees what you do with the ballot paper.
rjtjrt is offline  

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