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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 29th Aug 2019, 05:43
  #9681 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat
Well, today has turned me into a republican.

I used to support the monarchy, primarily as an insurance policy, as a backstop against a constitutional coup.

We've been paying her and her family for centuries against they day they actually needed to earn their pay.

That day was today. She had one job. Ever, for the whole of her life. She blew it.
The Times:

“Could the Queen have prevented or altered the prime minister’s plans for the prorogation of parliament?......

So what should a constitutional monarch do if the matter is nonjusticiable and no one else is in a position to uphold the constitution? Can he or she decline to act upon advice to prorogue the parliament? Both constitutional principle and experience in Commonwealth realms support the existence of a discretion to decline to act when the prime minister has lost, or appears likely to lose, the confidence of the Commons or the advice to prorogue breaches fundamental constitutional principles, such as the rule of law, responsible government or representative government.

This is not a discretion to act according to the sovereign’s personal wishes. The role of a constitutional monarch does not permit such an indulgence. Discretion is confined to action necessary to uphold the constitution. As politicians conventionally act constitutionally in giving their advice, this leaves no room for any regal discretion. Hence there is a common assumption that the sovereign has no role in rejecting ministerial advice.......

To suggest that the Queen has no discretion at all, no matter the circumstances, traduces her constitutional role to that of a nodding automaton in a hat.

In practice, the Queen exercises her powers by way of influence behind closed doors. Power is often more effective when it is unseen. It is noteworthy that the prime minister has announced a limited prorogation which does not cover the entirety of the period until October 31. Instead, sitting time has been retained both before prorogation and prior to the Brexit deadline of October 31. Parliament has not been completely prevented from addressing issues of confidence or passing legislation with respect to Brexit. This might be the consequence of prudent legal advice or regal persuasion........
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 06:20
  #9682 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Just one last post for tonight to add this tweet from Faisal Islam..



How's that fine idea of "Democracy", "will of the people" and "taking back control" thing working out for many of you fine folks tonight?

Comfortable with the day's events?..... left winger or right winger - be honest...any doubts? Any chance, just perhaps, that you are beginning to realise you've helped let a genie, that perhaps you cannot control, out of the bottle?

I'm not going to draw parallels with the 1930s, that has rightly been done to death already... Instead I'll leave you with a few wise words from 1863: "Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."...Well, I really hope so, but tonight I'm not so sure..
Yes, I'm happy with the current situation. No doubts. Why? Because I think it would have been sensible for the opposition parties to have waited until after the somewhat self imposed 30 day deadline to see what the government is going to put forward with regard to the current WA and then act. They are deliberately undermining the UK's position in Europe.

And if they are so outraged about the situation why bother with all this protesting? Why bother with petitions? Why bother with the courts. It can all be simply stopped next week by calling for that vote of confidence in the Government. But no, as things stand Corbyn and all the others opposed to whats happening will put their selfish personal and party ambitions above all else. It is good to see the definition of democracy being stretched and tested.

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 06:46
  #9683 (permalink)  
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A commentary on Ruth Davidson........

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...her-own-party/
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 06:49
  #9684 (permalink)  
 
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How ironic that the complaints of “constitutional outrage” come from the same individuals who wanted to appoint Corbyn as PM with no democratic process despite his huge unpopularity (and manifest inadequacy) even in his own party, who performed pretzel-twists of parliamentary procedure to attain their aims; hijacking bills to amend in a way unrelated to their intent, and from a Speaker who has abandoned any pretence of impartiality.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 07:14
  #9685 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Childbirth and motherhood have altered Ruth Davidson's perspectives on what is important in life. Nothing to do with Brexit, Scottish independence, or thwarted ambition to become a future leader of the House of Commons, or First Minister of Scotland. Parenthood lifts the veil revealing the ultimate futility of regional politics and assemblies. All politics in the UK devolve out from Westminster and as seen yesterday, broadly in accordance with how HM The Queen wants things to play out. Be under no illusions, those in the know made billions in profits as the Pound dipped on exchange markets following the decision to prorogue Parliament. They will make many billions more when the Pound bounces back after Brexit. The Queen is still one of the richest people on the planet and the UK one of the top ten economic powers in the world. Why be satisfied to be relegated as just one of the regional states of the EU when we can be independent?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 07:46
  #9686 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
Yes, I'm happy with the current situation. No doubts. Why? Because I think it would have been sensible for the opposition parties to have waited until after the somewhat self imposed 30 day deadline to see what the government is going to put forward with regard to the current WA and then act. They are deliberately undermining the UK's position in Europe.

And if they are so outraged about the situation why bother with all this protesting? Why bother with petitions? Why bother with the courts. It can all be simply stopped next week by calling for that vote of confidence in the Government. But no, as things stand Corbyn and all the others opposed to whats happening will put their selfish personal and party ambitions above all else. It is good to see the definition of democracy being stretched and tested.
The UK's future position in Europe was undermined from the onset of the negotiations by the combination of arrogance / incompetence of those involved.

As for the protests, well I don't know who the other 999.999 are who signed the petition are, but, this should give you a clue as to the one I do know who has. To paraphrase, remember "Protect and Survive " at all ?...well this is "Protest and Survive " because whilst you seem happy to acquiesce, there's at least 1m of us, probably more by now, who aren't . Remember also, when Treeza condescended to involve the electorate with a GE, presumably based on looking at the rune stones and listening to a soothsayer , the expectation was a landslide victory and overwhelming majority ?........sadly, the electorate failed to comply with this expectation.

Boris has similar expectations of course.....unfortunately, given what is emerging as a coup in all but name and with the EU not prostrating themselves before him and his plans, the electorate won't be exactly over enamoured at the prospect of a dictator in, again, all but name, running the UK to purely massage his ego.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49504526

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:06
  #9687 (permalink)  
 
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The usual suspects whinge that domestic issues are being neglected because of the time and effort going into brexit, then whinge some more when a true leader, like Boris, sets-out to enable much needed domestic policy planning and implementation.

How can you tell when an aircraft full of remoaners has landed?

The whining continues even with the engines (and APU) turned off! LOLZ

Thank you for reading
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:09
  #9688 (permalink)  
 
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I'm very sorry for the Queen.
She has lived through a long, generally peaceful and stable reign. Now as she approaches its end she sees her country falling to pieces - in the case of NI and Scotland perhaps literally.
She has been thrust into the middle of a highly controversial situation and will be criticised for a decision that she very likely advised against. She has been used.

​​
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:14
  #9689 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
The usual suspects whinge that domestic issues are being neglected because of the time and effort going into brexit, then whinge some more when a true leader, like Boris, sets-out to enable much needed domestic policy planning and implementation.

How can you tell when an aircraft full of remoaners has landed?

The whining continues even with the engines (and APU) turned off! LOLZ

Thank you for reading
A "true leader " ?....

Ever helpful, as I'm aware you have difficulty in assimilating factual content, rather than one link, here's a selection for you to peruse at your leisure. Feel free to identify any content that confirms Boris as a "leader "


https://www.theguardian.com/uk



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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:26
  #9690 (permalink)  
 
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Chipper me old mucker, anyone who posts links to the gruaniad to back up their argument has already lost.

Boris is leading, you may not like where he's going, but he is most definitely leading.

Have a nice day

Thank you for reading
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:29
  #9691 (permalink)  
 
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Having virtually, but not absolutely, stopped the "stop no deal " majority in parliament having the time to get their legislation through, subject to Mr. Speaker I suppose, what is Johnson's endgame. My twopenneth is:-

Parliament shuts down on 10th September. In the subsequent 5 weeks Johnson attempts to get the EU to do as they're told, which in essence is keep Mrs. May's agreement, just get shot of the NI Backstop. The EU doesn't budge. Parliament returns on 14th October, just 3 days before the EU Summit. Johnson puts it to parliament that despite his best (efforts) he hasn't been able to get a new deal. He then puts before MPs a "Hobson's choice" but bringing back Mrs. May's agreement in full, including the backstop (again Mr Speaker permitting) for a 4th time, and makes it clear that if it doesn't go through we're out, no deal on 31st October.

That would be a clever move. He knows that the ERG will vote against him, so to get it through, and avoid no deal, he has to get the "stop no deal" majority behind him. He can do this by telling them, clearly that if they vote against the deal, then they, and only they, have facilitated no deal (not Johnson, he did his best!). Afterwards he puts forward a vote of no confidence, which Labour would surely support, and a general election follows before Christmas. If he got his deal through, then he can say he carried out the will of the people; if he failed and we left with no deal, then he can make it quite clear in the campaign that it is Labour that have facilitated the chaos that results. Either way, the Tories win a general election, and Johnson has 5 years in power (minimum).

Looks like a plan to me.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:59
  #9692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
The UK's future position in Europe was undermined from the onset of the negotiations by the combination of arrogance / incompetence of those involved.

As for the protests, well I don't know who the other 999.999 are who signed the petition are, but, this should give you a clue as to the one I do know who has. To paraphrase, remember "Protect and Survive " at all ?...well this is "Protest and Survive " because whilst you seem happy to acquiesce, there's at least 1m of us, probably more by now, who aren't . Remember also, when Treeza condescended to involve the electorate with a GE, presumably based on looking at the rune stones and listening to a soothsayer , the expectation was a landslide victory and overwhelming majority ?........sadly, the electorate failed to comply with this expectation.

Boris has similar expectations of course.....unfortunately, given what is emerging as a coup in all but name and with the EU not prostrating themselves before him and his plans, the electorate won't be exactly over enamoured at the prospect of a dictator in, again, all but name, running the UK to purely massage his ego.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49504526
To use Cornish Jack's logic, that means 1m people are trying to impose their will on the 65m people that haven't signed the petition and must therefore be happy with the current position.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:00
  #9693 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm very sorry for the Queen.
She has lived through a long, generally peaceful and stable reign. Now as she approaches its end she sees her country falling to pieces - in the case of NI and Scotland perhaps literally.
She has been thrust into the middle of a highly controversial situation and will be criticised for a decision that she very likely advised against. She has been used.

​​
As I've said before, perhaps HM is actually in favour of Brexit. We will never know.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:00
  #9694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm very sorry for the Queen.
She has lived through a long, generally peaceful and stable reign. Now as she approaches its end she sees her country falling to pieces - in the case of NI and Scotland perhaps literally.
She has been thrust into the middle of a highly controversial situation and will be criticised for a decision that she very likely advised against. She has been used.

​​
Is that your opinion about the Queen 'very likely advised against'?
Or do you actually know her personal opinion?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:09
  #9695 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blossy View Post
Gertrude has written many foolish things but this really takes the biscuit.
So the UK would become a Republic. The public vote(51% - 49% majority) the 1st President is Lord Nigel Farage of Cambridge is elected for a 6 year term.

Just what the people wanted and voted for!. Everyone happy!
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:09
  #9696 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


Is that your opinion about the Queen 'very likely advised against'?
Or do you actually know her personal opinion?
I believe I'm allowed my opinion. I expect most people will have theirs.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:16
  #9697 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
As I've said before, perhaps HM is actually in favour of Brexit. We will never know.
The Queen was not asked to facilitate Brexit. She was requested to prorogue parliament. That just happened to facitate Brexit but I very much doubt that Brexit was mentioned to her or by her.
Her opinion on Brexit is a separate issue, which we will never know.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:24
  #9698 (permalink)  
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ATNotts
Johnson puts it to parliament that despite his best (efforts) he hasn't been able to get a new deal. He then puts before MPs a "Hobson's choice" but bringing back Mrs. May's agreement in full, including the backstop (again Mr Speaker permitting) for a 4th time, and makes it clear that if it doesn't go through we're out, no deal on 31st October.
I needed a good laugh this morning.

After his recent statements he would have no choice but to press on with a no-deal exit, certainly he couldn't support the backstop.

Any attempt to pursue a further extension would lead to the question of why by the EU and, with a majority of only one, an immediate election where the Conservatives would be wiped out by the BXP.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:45
  #9699 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I believe I'm allowed my opinion. I expect most people will have theirs.
You didn't state it was your opinion though did you? You stated 'decision that she very likely advised against'

How would you know this?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 10:09
  #9700 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


You didn't state it was your opinion though did you? You stated 'decision that she very likely advised against'

How would you know this?
Nonsense. Everything written on here, unless a quotation from elsewhere, is the poster's opinion.

My opinion is that she would advise against an extremely unusual prorogation of Parliament that sets a precedent for possible future abuse.
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