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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 29th Aug 2019, 07:46
  #9681 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
Yes, I'm happy with the current situation. No doubts. Why? Because I think it would have been sensible for the opposition parties to have waited until after the somewhat self imposed 30 day deadline to see what the government is going to put forward with regard to the current WA and then act. They are deliberately undermining the UK's position in Europe.

And if they are so outraged about the situation why bother with all this protesting? Why bother with petitions? Why bother with the courts. It can all be simply stopped next week by calling for that vote of confidence in the Government. But no, as things stand Corbyn and all the others opposed to whats happening will put their selfish personal and party ambitions above all else. It is good to see the definition of democracy being stretched and tested.
The UK's future position in Europe was undermined from the onset of the negotiations by the combination of arrogance / incompetence of those involved.

As for the protests, well I don't know who the other 999.999 are who signed the petition are, but, this should give you a clue as to the one I do know who has. To paraphrase, remember "Protect and Survive " at all ?...well this is "Protest and Survive " because whilst you seem happy to acquiesce, there's at least 1m of us, probably more by now, who aren't . Remember also, when Treeza condescended to involve the electorate with a GE, presumably based on looking at the rune stones and listening to a soothsayer , the expectation was a landslide victory and overwhelming majority ?........sadly, the electorate failed to comply with this expectation.

Boris has similar expectations of course.....unfortunately, given what is emerging as a coup in all but name and with the EU not prostrating themselves before him and his plans, the electorate won't be exactly over enamoured at the prospect of a dictator in, again, all but name, running the UK to purely massage his ego.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49504526

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:06
  #9682 (permalink)  
 
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The usual suspects whinge that domestic issues are being neglected because of the time and effort going into brexit, then whinge some more when a true leader, like Boris, sets-out to enable much needed domestic policy planning and implementation.

How can you tell when an aircraft full of remoaners has landed?

The whining continues even with the engines (and APU) turned off! LOLZ

Thank you for reading
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:09
  #9683 (permalink)  
 
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I'm very sorry for the Queen.
She has lived through a long, generally peaceful and stable reign. Now as she approaches its end she sees her country falling to pieces - in the case of NI and Scotland perhaps literally.
She has been thrust into the middle of a highly controversial situation and will be criticised for a decision that she very likely advised against. She has been used.

​​
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:14
  #9684 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
The usual suspects whinge that domestic issues are being neglected because of the time and effort going into brexit, then whinge some more when a true leader, like Boris, sets-out to enable much needed domestic policy planning and implementation.

How can you tell when an aircraft full of remoaners has landed?

The whining continues even with the engines (and APU) turned off! LOLZ

Thank you for reading
A "true leader " ?....

Ever helpful, as I'm aware you have difficulty in assimilating factual content, rather than one link, here's a selection for you to peruse at your leisure. Feel free to identify any content that confirms Boris as a "leader "


https://www.theguardian.com/uk



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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:26
  #9685 (permalink)  
 
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Chipper me old mucker, anyone who posts links to the gruaniad to back up their argument has already lost.

Boris is leading, you may not like where he's going, but he is most definitely leading.

Have a nice day

Thank you for reading
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:29
  #9686 (permalink)  
 
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Having virtually, but not absolutely, stopped the "stop no deal " majority in parliament having the time to get their legislation through, subject to Mr. Speaker I suppose, what is Johnson's endgame. My twopenneth is:-

Parliament shuts down on 10th September. In the subsequent 5 weeks Johnson attempts to get the EU to do as they're told, which in essence is keep Mrs. May's agreement, just get shot of the NI Backstop. The EU doesn't budge. Parliament returns on 14th October, just 3 days before the EU Summit. Johnson puts it to parliament that despite his best (efforts) he hasn't been able to get a new deal. He then puts before MPs a "Hobson's choice" but bringing back Mrs. May's agreement in full, including the backstop (again Mr Speaker permitting) for a 4th time, and makes it clear that if it doesn't go through we're out, no deal on 31st October.

That would be a clever move. He knows that the ERG will vote against him, so to get it through, and avoid no deal, he has to get the "stop no deal" majority behind him. He can do this by telling them, clearly that if they vote against the deal, then they, and only they, have facilitated no deal (not Johnson, he did his best!). Afterwards he puts forward a vote of no confidence, which Labour would surely support, and a general election follows before Christmas. If he got his deal through, then he can say he carried out the will of the people; if he failed and we left with no deal, then he can make it quite clear in the campaign that it is Labour that have facilitated the chaos that results. Either way, the Tories win a general election, and Johnson has 5 years in power (minimum).

Looks like a plan to me.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:59
  #9687 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
The UK's future position in Europe was undermined from the onset of the negotiations by the combination of arrogance / incompetence of those involved.

As for the protests, well I don't know who the other 999.999 are who signed the petition are, but, this should give you a clue as to the one I do know who has. To paraphrase, remember "Protect and Survive " at all ?...well this is "Protest and Survive " because whilst you seem happy to acquiesce, there's at least 1m of us, probably more by now, who aren't . Remember also, when Treeza condescended to involve the electorate with a GE, presumably based on looking at the rune stones and listening to a soothsayer , the expectation was a landslide victory and overwhelming majority ?........sadly, the electorate failed to comply with this expectation.

Boris has similar expectations of course.....unfortunately, given what is emerging as a coup in all but name and with the EU not prostrating themselves before him and his plans, the electorate won't be exactly over enamoured at the prospect of a dictator in, again, all but name, running the UK to purely massage his ego.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49504526
To use Cornish Jack's logic, that means 1m people are trying to impose their will on the 65m people that haven't signed the petition and must therefore be happy with the current position.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:00
  #9688 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm very sorry for the Queen.
She has lived through a long, generally peaceful and stable reign. Now as she approaches its end she sees her country falling to pieces - in the case of NI and Scotland perhaps literally.
She has been thrust into the middle of a highly controversial situation and will be criticised for a decision that she very likely advised against. She has been used.

​​
As I've said before, perhaps HM is actually in favour of Brexit. We will never know.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:00
  #9689 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm very sorry for the Queen.
She has lived through a long, generally peaceful and stable reign. Now as she approaches its end she sees her country falling to pieces - in the case of NI and Scotland perhaps literally.
She has been thrust into the middle of a highly controversial situation and will be criticised for a decision that she very likely advised against. She has been used.

​​
Is that your opinion about the Queen 'very likely advised against'?
Or do you actually know her personal opinion?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:09
  #9690 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blossy View Post
Gertrude has written many foolish things but this really takes the biscuit.
So the UK would become a Republic. The public vote(51% - 49% majority) the 1st President is Lord Nigel Farage of Cambridge is elected for a 6 year term.

Just what the people wanted and voted for!. Everyone happy!
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:09
  #9691 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


Is that your opinion about the Queen 'very likely advised against'?
Or do you actually know her personal opinion?
I believe I'm allowed my opinion. I expect most people will have theirs.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:16
  #9692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
As I've said before, perhaps HM is actually in favour of Brexit. We will never know.
The Queen was not asked to facilitate Brexit. She was requested to prorogue parliament. That just happened to facitate Brexit but I very much doubt that Brexit was mentioned to her or by her.
Her opinion on Brexit is a separate issue, which we will never know.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:24
  #9693 (permalink)  
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ATNotts
Johnson puts it to parliament that despite his best (efforts) he hasn't been able to get a new deal. He then puts before MPs a "Hobson's choice" but bringing back Mrs. May's agreement in full, including the backstop (again Mr Speaker permitting) for a 4th time, and makes it clear that if it doesn't go through we're out, no deal on 31st October.
I needed a good laugh this morning.

After his recent statements he would have no choice but to press on with a no-deal exit, certainly he couldn't support the backstop.

Any attempt to pursue a further extension would lead to the question of why by the EU and, with a majority of only one, an immediate election where the Conservatives would be wiped out by the BXP.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 09:45
  #9694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I believe I'm allowed my opinion. I expect most people will have theirs.
You didn't state it was your opinion though did you? You stated 'decision that she very likely advised against'

How would you know this?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 10:09
  #9695 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


You didn't state it was your opinion though did you? You stated 'decision that she very likely advised against'

How would you know this?
Nonsense. Everything written on here, unless a quotation from elsewhere, is the poster's opinion.

My opinion is that she would advise against an extremely unusual prorogation of Parliament that sets a precedent for possible future abuse.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 10:37
  #9696 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
ATNotts

I needed a good laugh this morning.

After his recent statements he would have no choice but to press on with a no-deal exit, certainly he couldn't support the backstop.

Any attempt to pursue a further extension would lead to the question of why by the EU and, with a majority of only one, an immediate election where the Conservatives would be wiped out by the BXP.
Johnson changes his mind in a chameleon manner, nothing is beyond the lying kniving twerp. I don't believe you read what I said. The logic behind such a move is simply that whichever option the opposition chose they'd either secure Brexit, and satisfy all but the extremists, or enable a no deal Brexit that would be blamed fair and square on the opposition. Granted, he may get a larger majority without the thorn in his side that is Farage and his extremist Brexiteer party, but the majority in the country, I think remainers and leavers want Brexit sorted and the less damage that does for Boris Johnson's ego the better. A general election in the immediate aftermath of a no deal Brexit precipitated by the Conservatives could well result in a Labour government, even if in coalition with the SNP or LibDems. Neither have said they'll work with Corbyn, but a sniff of power and politicians change their minds pretty quickly.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 10:56
  #9697 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Nonsense. Everything written on here, unless a quotation from elsewhere, is the poster's opinion.

My opinion is that she would advise against an extremely unusual prorogation of Parliament that sets a precedent for possible future abuse.
But my understanding is that The Queen has no option to advise in this matter. The advice comes from the PM, and only the PM, to the Monarch and the Monarch approves it. Whether the PMs advice was properly formed might be the subject of a legal challenge, I think we will have to wait and see on that.

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:01
  #9698 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts

Johnson changes his mind in a chameleon manner, nothing is beyond the lying kniving twerp
Come on, get off the fence - tell us what you really think. (Kniving - interesting word, or did you mean conniving?)
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:08
  #9699 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Groundbased View Post
But my understanding is that The Queen has no option to advise in this matter. The advice comes from the PM, and only the PM, to the Monarch and the Monarch approves it. Whether the PMs advice was properly formed might be the subject of a legal challenge, I think we will have to wait and see on that.
I think that about sums up the position that HMQ finds herself. Had she told Johnson's possie that turned up at her front door yesterday to go sling their and their boss' collective hook we'd probably wind up with a bigger constitutional crisis than we're heading for at the moment.

What these most recent shenanigans illustrate is the need for a proper, modern, written constitution that can be policed by a constitutional court. Will we get one? I doubt it. Our politicians are happier with the system as it is, and the nation so backward looking and steeped tradition that they just wouldn't have it. It's not "British".
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:30
  #9700 (permalink)  
 
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Before the Referendum, we were informed that a remain vote was guaranteed because leaving the EU would be too difficult and the country would be ruined with immediate economic collapse the day after the result was declared.

The people voted to leave the EU and the economy has essentially flourished in the face of trade wars and recession elsewhere. Over three years of parliamentary debate have been devoted to how after 40 years it is too difficult to extricate the UK from the EU Gordian knot.

Finally we have a politician who acknowledges what the public have known all along, we can just walk away from the EU after all with no pre arranged deal. Of course the minority remain group are panicking, they might have to actually work for a living instead of relying on EU grants and subsidies.

As for The Queen having had a long and mostly peaceful reign? How short are peoples memories. She has reigned through several wars, been subject to several assassination attempts, awoken to an intruder in her bedroom, faced down demands to abdicate in the wake of the death of Princess Diana and many other threats to her monarchy. Brexit is just the merest ripple on the sea of troubles she has navigated throughout her reign.
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