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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 27th Aug 2019, 21:21
  #9621 (permalink)  
 
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The Govester seems to have undergone quite a transformation in five short months. But this is just typical of the Leave advocates, they change their position at will and then claim those who confront their lies knew all along. It's what has happened on this thread with leaving the single market being equated with NoDeal.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 22:54
  #9622 (permalink)  
 
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Dick Tice but dim on Newsnight being very aggressive towards Pfeffel. I have a feeling that any electoral pact between them will be rather like the Molotov - Ribbentrop one.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 05:46
  #9623 (permalink)  
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Well done the UK population !....well according to Javid that is......nothing beats a bit of flattery after all and this comes in useful when there's a GE in the offing, not that there is of course because all the sudden largesse is merely the "caring " party showing their compassion for the nation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49491379

But, there's a little classic here ........taken from the above link.

"Unlike the Labour Party, we don't believe in just throwing money at a problem. And especially at a time when the global economy is slowing, it's important that we don't let our public finances get out of control. "


Of course not, HS2 being a mere "accounting oversight ", bunging the DUP some helpful cash just to try and ensure a majority, the ever increasing expenditure on Brexit,......plus, when the public sector has been systematically deprived of funding, when people are being subjected to draconian and malevolent cuts to services and their ability to merely live, or rather exist, then clearly the policies of not squandering tax payers money works !

And the bit about the global economy slowing is even more interesting.......not that this will affect the US Protectorate of Blighty because we will be immune thanks to the salvation of myriads of trade deals with our new found benefactors plus, the world will be flocking to our shores when our success cascades around the globe ( Empire V 2.0 )........such a shame the recession that's coming will compound the consequences of leaving the EU really.

Given the rabid support for regressing the UK, no doubt a rousing cheer of approval for once again allowing sociopaths to enter a classroom .... ( see use of "reasonable force " here ) which should keep m'learned friends gainfully employed.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ns-for-schools

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 28th Aug 2019 at 06:36.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 08:09
  #9624 (permalink)  
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Politico:

Also coming next week: Expect a concerted effort from the same opposition and rebel MPs to cancel the three-week conference recess, which would normally begin the Thursday before the Lib Dem conference (which this year would be September 12). Commons leader Jacob Rees-Mogg is due to put forward a motion in the House next week with formal recess proposals, but it looks increasingly unlikely he will have the numbers in the House to get it through. Playbook hears all the main opposition parties are likely to support canceling the recess, and you’d think there should be enough rebel Tory MPs to carry it over the line. That doesn’t mean the conferences themselves will be canceled — just that MPs will have to scuttle back and forth on trains if they want to attend.

All of which means: The long-awaited Labour reshuffle — penciled in for next week — could now be delayed again. “I’m not sure there’s going to be the bandwidth,” one party official says. Team Corbyn are keen to promote a number of up-and-coming lefty MPs with regional accents who perform well in the media, with Shadow Labor Minister Laura Pidcock, Shadow Solicitor-General Nick Thomas-Symonds and Shadow Police Minister Louise Haigh among those lined up for promotions. Some of the more anonymous members of the shadow Cabinet are set to be culled, although speculation remains rife that Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry will also get the bullet........
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 08:14
  #9625 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I agree.
Having been bitterly disappointed with the referendum result I could nevertheless see there was no reasonable chance to reverse it.

Sh!t happens and we have to accept it. We can all see that there will be plenty of the stuff flying round after Brexit, and a lot of people especially the less well off will suffer.

But as they say, that's democracy.
And many of the less off voted for leave. They reap what they sewed.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 08:39
  #9626 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts

So the ‘less well off’ were and are thus under EU supervision. Maybe that’s why many of them voted leave.

Once we have left the EU (if it ever happens) they will probably still be ‘less well off’.

What’s the difference?

There is no promise that their situation will change either way. Maybe for many a change is as good as a rest.

Anyway, none of us can ever know the reasons why each person voted the way they did. After all this time and all these posts nobody has yet changed their opinion have they?!

BV
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 08:41
  #9627 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
So the ‘less well off’ were and are thus under EU supervision. Maybe that’s why many of them voted leave.

BV

What do you mean by "EU supervision"?

After all this time and all these posts nobody has yet changed their opinion have they?
Nobody has owned up to it in this place but I know a few who have quietly changed from the "Leave" POV to "Remain", no doubt some will have switched the other way.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 08:58
  #9628 (permalink)  
 
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Wiggy

We meet again! I haven’t been on this thread for a while but I see some things haven’t changed!

By EU supervision I mean that the ‘less well off’ may well feel that their situation is as it is whilst we are an EU member. They may feel that it can’t get any worse (and by implication may actually improve) after we leave.

As for the claim that many leavers would now vote remain Remain I know of several remainers who would now vote leave.

I could cite articles to prove it but it is fairly predictable that the Mail and Express write many articles about remainers now wishing to leave and the Guardian writes many articles about leavers wishing to remain.

I have yet to see a truly objective study as to the amount of ‘switcheroos’ that exist from either camp.

If we have learnt one thing in recent years its that any poll that claims to be able to predict the true feelings of the British population is probably wrong.

For the record I think the behaviour of our current politicians is utterly shameful. The current plot to delay Brexit again is so transparent it is ridiculous.

Career politicians just love the game of politics. They need to accept that they exist to serve not to dictate.

If there is one redeeming feature out of all of this it is the fact that BJ (I am not his biggest fan but such is life) has at least gone to the EU with a strong stance. Why the opposition politicians insist on trying to weaken his stance is beyond me. That is politics for the sake of politics.

If we had gone with this stance from day one we probably could have left by now with a decent deal. We will never know.

Anyway, many of you will disagree with everything I have said and think me mad. Hey ho.

I will probably disagree with much of what the rest of you say but I’m not going to get my panties in a twist. I’m not in a position to change anything and I therefore realise that everything we say on here is just opinion (and hot air).

BV
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 09:30
  #9629 (permalink)  
 
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By EU supervision I mean that the ‘less well off’ may well feel that their situation is as it is whilst we are an EU member.
Ah OK, I thought you were hinting at something more sinister.

I think one of the interesting things from what I've witnessed with our "local" difficulty, aka the Gilet Jaunes and austerity, French style, is that rightly or wrongly the disgruntled in the population feel their plight is down to decisions made by the likes of Hollande & Valls, Macron & Philippe, in Paris - as they see it they have been let down by domestic politics and politicians, rather than by "EU supervision"..........

This brings us back to people to the wider debate about people needing to own their decisions, the role of some in the Press, and the dire campaign run by "Remain".

Last edited by wiggy; 28th Aug 2019 at 09:44.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 09:45
  #9630 (permalink)  
 
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So, Boris, despite earlier attempts to deny it, is allegedly planning to suspend parliament:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:00
  #9631 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
So, Boris, despite earlier attempts to deny it, is allegedly planning to suspend parliament:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632
Parliament is always prorogued prior to a Queens Speech. This has been one of the longest sessions.
Labour always used to have a Queens Speech in the autumn, especially in non election years.
It is one week longer than would normally happen.

Now an opinion. Without doubt this is Polictical. It may even be conniving, but not illegal. The motivation for this will be discussed endlessly, and many on here will need medication. But after yesterday, BJ is challenging the opposition to call a VONC next week. Back me or get Corbyn.

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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:00
  #9632 (permalink)  
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Boris/Cummings have stitched them up like a kipper.

Government has asked ER for a prorogue of Parliament from 12th Sept until 14 Oct for a Queens Speech and budget.

Queens Speech is followed by 5 day debate before a vote, which takes it to Monday 21st Oct. The vote Is, under the FTPA, a confidence vote. Which if lost triggers the 14 day period where BJ can stay in office/No 10 until after 31st Oct.

Further, if he comes back from EU Summit with a deal, can truthfully tell parliament - vote against Queens Speech and/or deal you get no deal. Which gives MPs grim choice.

There is insufficient time between 3rd and 12th for remainers to seize control of parliamentary business and force through legislation - even with the help of The Speaker. So the only option they have left is for JC to request a vote of confidence on 3rd Sept. if they lose, the above happens.

The Chancellor presents his, in reality, election budget on 4th Sept. If BJ then loses the vote of no confidence, and stays in office for next 14 days, he can still delay Election Day till after 31st Oct.

Miller, Grieve et al can try and take prorogue to the courts, but after longest parliamentary session since the 1640s, and with reason being for Queens Speech and with new PM, they have no legs to stand on and would certainly lose.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:11
  #9633 (permalink)  
 
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If only Merkel had given Johnson 14 days instead of 30 we might know where all this is going. (Yes, I know the 30 days was only an example).
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:13
  #9634 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC

When I watched House of Cards on TV I thought the political machinations were all a little far fetched.

After reading your post, and seeing how it is all eminently possible, I now realise it probably didn’t even get close to the real levels of conniving that occur in the corridors of power.

BV
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:28
  #9635 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


Parliament is always prorogued prior to a Queens Speech. This has been one of the longest sessions.
Labour always used to have a Queens Speech in the autumn, especially in non election years.
It is one week longer than would normally happen.

Now an opinion. Without doubt this is Polictical. It may even be conniving, but not illegal. The motivation for this will be discussed endlessly, and many on here will need medication. But after yesterday, BJ is challenging the opposition to call a VONC next week. Back me or get Corbyn.

Erm. not quite . If this event was as you perceive it, then the furore would be non existent . It's a conniving political move which also demonstrates his disdain for democracy and how obsessed Boris is with himself and his future status.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:31
  #9636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Boris/Cummings have stitched them up like a kipper.

Government has asked ER for a prorogue of Parliament from 12th Sept until 14 Oct for a Queens Speech and budget.

Queens Speech is followed by 5 day debate before a vote, which takes it to Monday 21st Oct. The vote Is, under the FTPA, a confidence vote. Which if lost triggers the 14 day period where BJ can stay in office/No 10 until after 31st Oct.

Further, if he comes back from EU Summit with a deal, can truthfully tell parliament - vote against Queens Speech and/or deal you get no deal. Which gives MPs grim choice.

There is insufficient time between 3rd and 12th for remainers to seize control of parliamentary business and force through legislation - even with the help of The Speaker. So the only option they have left is for JC to request a vote of confidence on 3rd Sept. if they lose, the above happens.

The Chancellor presents his, in reality, election budget on 4th Sept. If BJ then loses the vote of no confidence, and stays in office for next 14 days, he can still delay Election Day till after 31st Oct.

Miller, Grieve et al can try and take prorogue to the courts, but after longest parliamentary session since the 1640s, and with reason being for Queens Speech and with new PM, they have no legs to stand on and would certainly lose.
There appear to be many political and constitutional experts who are giving the impression that it's far less cut and dried than you suggest. Unless you are the oracle in such matters I'd wait and see. I'm not suggesting you aren't correct, but there's a deal of water to flow under the parliamentary and constitution bridge before we get to "proguement day".
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:46
  #9637 (permalink)  
 
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Ooh, this will knock "strictly" into a cocked hat, with or without extra-marital shenanigans.

Thank you for reading
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 10:55
  #9638 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
Ooh, this will knock "strictly" into a cocked hat, with or without extra-marital shenanigans.

Thank you for reading
Certainly will, should further enhance John Bercow's future earning potential after he leaves parliament (books, public speaker, TV guest etc etc). I'm sure the potential is not lost on him.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 11:29
  #9639 (permalink)  
 
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More than three years after the British public voted unconditionally in favour of leaving the EU, the Prime Minister is finally acting to carry out the result of the referendum, as promised. The usual suspects are popping up everywhere, full of bluster and outrage, claiming that this is unconstitutional and undemocratic and that MPs need more time to debate the issue. What is unconstitutional and undemocratic is a faulure after more than three years to deliver Brexit.

The public were not asked to present a view on the conditions for leaving the EU and if there is anything undemocratic about the process of leaving, it is the futile attempts of MPs and the EU to impose such terms as they see fit as a condition of leaving. Looks like we finally have a Prime Minister who has a spine, although many will see it as that of a boa constrictor! Well played Sir!
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 11:40
  #9640 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
And many of the less off voted for leave. They reap what they sewed.
You mean they got stitched up?

Last edited by Sallyann1234; 28th Aug 2019 at 12:09. Reason: Coloured for emphasis
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