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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 21st Aug 2019, 08:37
  #9541 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
True but this is still the Labour Party. Corbyn despite his Marxism in the end must answer to the members. I somehow think they haven't all turned into Communists. That will constrain him.
The problem is that the membership is probably about as unrepresentative of Labour supporters in the country; just as the Tory membership is unrepresentative if it's supporters. There was a surge in Labour membership through Momentum and they, along with the likes of McCluskey of the GMB who appear to be calling the shots. When Corbyn has blown the general election, as I feel sure he will, the silent majority will surely rise up and put Labour back more to the centre-left ground, where they were under John Smith, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

I fear the Tory party will continue to be very much on the right of politics for a while yet, very much as a result of Corbyn's left wing Labour policies.

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Old 21st Aug 2019, 09:32
  #9542 (permalink)  
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When Corbyn has blown the general election, as I feel sure he will, the silent majority will surely rise up and put Labour back more to the centre-left ground
That happened back in the 1980-90s under Foot and Kinnock. But the difference is that, in those days, the leader led the fight back, and the left never seized the organs of power such as the NEC.

Now they own the leadership and all the organs of power and, with the changes in selection rules, the means to hold onto both.

The more probable result is that they will decide not that they had gone too far to the left - but not enough.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 12:47
  #9543 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
That happened back in the 1980-90s under Foot and Kinnock. But the difference is that, in those days, the leader led the fight back, and the left never seized the organs of power such as the NEC.

Now they own the leadership and all the organs of power and, with the changes in selection rules, the means to hold onto both.

The more probable result is that they will decide not that they had gone too far to the left - but not enough.
The logical outcome then is for the sensible members of Labour will go off and form "New Improved Labour" and leave Momentum to to their own deluded project. Snag with that is with our FPTP electoral system neither the sane nor insane wing could gain power in the medium term.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:13
  #9544 (permalink)  
 
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Scotland

Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) statistics published today show that Scottish fiscal deficit fell from £13.8bn to £12.6bn last year, still around 7% of GDP and among highest in EU. The UKís deficit was 1.1% of GDP.

Note, Wales and N Ireland were worse.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 15:01
  #9545 (permalink)  
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ATNotts,

The last time it happened was under Ramsay MacDonald and “the Great Betrayal” in 1931. Labour didn’t regain power till after WWII. Which why the Labour MPs who detest JC didn’t breakaway to form a separate “new” party by transferring to the Cooperative party and taking over as the official opposition.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...nt%E2%80%99-if

Last edited by ORAC; 21st Aug 2019 at 16:40.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 16:39
  #9546 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) statistics published today show that Scottish fiscal deficit fell from £13.8bn to £12.6bn last year, still around 7% of GDP and among highest in EU. The UKís deficit was 1.1% of GDP.

Note, Wales and N Ireland were worse.
For those struggling, the Scottish debt is roughly 60% of the whole of UK debt. This is for 8% of the population. Or £1600 per person more than the person in the rest of the UK.

NS believes that the EU would welcome Scotland with open arms!
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 17:18
  #9547 (permalink)  
 
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We are asked to believe that the Scotland,Wales and NI deficit totals 111% of the total UK deficit and England has no deficit !
Why then is Westminster so keen to hold on to Scotland?
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 17:33
  #9548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by renfrew View Post
We are asked to believe that the Scotland,Wales and NI deficit totals 111% of the total UK deficit and England has no deficit !
Why then is Westminster so keen to hold on to Scotland?
Would the zone in blue explain things ?
Fish & oil...




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Old 21st Aug 2019, 20:07
  #9549 (permalink)  
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That map is incorrect. The maritime divide between Scotland and England follows the line of the border - and a large number of the North Sea rigs and pipelines are in English waters. Not that they would claim them - the retrieval, disposal and clean -up costs would far exceed any remaining return.

Last edited by ORAC; 21st Aug 2019 at 21:29.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 20:10
  #9550 (permalink)  
 
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Fly Aiprt what is the basis for the zones on the map?

Here are the current oil and gas fields

There are a lot of legacy (aka major de-comm cost) oil fields North of the border......

Last edited by LowNSlow; 21st Aug 2019 at 20:25.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 20:19
  #9551 (permalink)  
 
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The Nip it's neatly explained here

Independence wouldn't be financially kind to Scotland and an Independent Scotland probably wouldn't meet the financial requirements to join the EU (but neither did Germany, France, Holland etc etc back in the day) so they'd probably get in just to p1ss off England/Wales/Northern Ireland!
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 20:19
  #9552 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
Fly Aiprt what is the basis for the zones on the map?
Apart from Scotland/England the lines all follow median lines equidistant from the land borders.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_boundary
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 20:20
  #9553 (permalink)  
 
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Westminster moved the boundary north in 1999.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 20:27
  #9554 (permalink)  
 
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PN I understand that but the chart showed clearly delineated areas that don't line up with oil/gas field areas, fishing areas etc

Renfrew, can you substantiate that please?
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 20:39
  #9555 (permalink)  
 
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Boundary moved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotti...ies_Order_1999
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 21:03
  #9556 (permalink)  
 
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renfrew: thanks for the clarification. Looks like it was the price of Devolution.....
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 21:40
  #9557 (permalink)  
 
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Either way, as already pointed out, decommissioning costs exceed the value of remaining oil and gas.

Has anyone heard the phrase ďCeltic TigerĒ used lately?
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 22:39
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Either way, as already pointed out, decommissioning costs exceed the value of remaining oil and gas.

Has anyone heard the phrase “Celtic Tiger” used lately?
Yup

But unlike in original it was overheated property market it is not this time. Ireland lost 15% of jobs during recession, it has since gained those back and added 20% on to the base figure.

I worked with some guys in NL 15 years ago, their kids (plus their friends) post Uni have now moved to Dublin to work with Google / Facebook / Linkedin etc. As a birthday party in Breda recently, the son of one of them said that in his company they had 1200 vacancies this year. I assummed world wide but he said that was just in ireland, then said that the total school leavers taking final years exams was only 120,000 that is a huge figure.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 22:54
  #9559 (permalink)  
 
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Actually I donít disagree with that: I work sometimes in Ireland and was impressed by their down to earth attitude in the immediate aftermath of the crash and subsequent hard work to set things straight. My comment was directed at Ms Sturgeonís loopy-loo financial projections: Iím not at all sure the EU would ignore their financial rules in the event of a Scottish application to (re)join just to annoy an ex-member. Yes, they did so for Greece. Look where that got them.
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 07:49
  #9560 (permalink)  
 
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The UK tax take from the North Sea this year appears tiny
Norway somehow appears to to get many times more.
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