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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 21st Jul 2019, 07:58
  #9061 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Freedom of Speech exists, as they are obviously printing and broadcasting as they wish. But so does the right to challenge slander and libel in court. And, frankly, choosing Carole Cadwalladr is is hardly uncommon - she has a history in such matters....

https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/0...ve-journalism/
Thankfully ORAC, freedom of speech does still exist, despite JB protestations to the contrary, and yes, challenging allegations is equally relevant.

However, the article seems to be more concerned with being overly critical of the left wing media than anything else...this quote, extracted from the article. suggests a happy ignorance as to the two rags, the Mail and Excess, who frequently embark on such as they promote on their front pages........

" than journalism as moral crusade. As with all crusades, the Observer’s rests on the faith that it is in the right, regardless of any inconvenient facts."

In the case of Mr Banks however, matters are considerably more complex and murky....so many unanswered questions, so many people taking a very deep and close interest in him ...there again, maybe the N.C.A have a policy of investigating innocent people just to squander their resources.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 08:09
  #9062 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
The quips about casual racism and homophobia.....might as well add Islam as well, always a firm favourite when the expression emerges......are now rightly seen for what they are and are...... defamatory, hostile and wholly unacceptable ....
People are put in prison for using hurty words.
And every year the threshold of what the authorities consider to be hurty is tightened.
This is pure Cultural Marxism.
The state is taking away our ability to use language and thus our ability to think. As predicted by Orwell.
It is as if they are using 1984 as an instruction manual.
Be very afraid.
.


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Old 21st Jul 2019, 10:05
  #9063 (permalink)  
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What a pair of prats.

Marr to Hammond: "Do you think Theresa May agrees with you?"

Hammond, "You'll have to ask Theresa May that question."

The question was a simple DO YOU THINK. Not do you think Theresa May thinks you agree with her? The question could not have been made more simple with a yes, no, maybe answer possible, or even I can't say. And Marr let him get away with it.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 10:28
  #9064 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect Andrew Marr may have been a bit taken aback by a Chancellor announcing his future resignation on live TV. Might have been expected that Hammond would resign if, as expected, Boris Johnson were to win the leadership contest, but I doubt that anyone could have foreseen that he'd choose to announce it on live TV at this time.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 10:39
  #9065 (permalink)  
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VP, this was not the first time. He said last week he would resign before hand rather than give BJ the satisfaction of sacking him.

Undoubtedly Hammond has been a major part of the problem for the last three years. How, with a Government committed to leaving the EU have allowed someone as committed to thwart Government policy had the nerve so remain as chancellor and May to keep him, unless . . .
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 10:45
  #9066 (permalink)  
 
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That isn't entirely accurate though is it? Hammond made quite clear during the course of the interview that his objection is to NoDeal not leaving altogether.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 10:48
  #9067 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
That isn't entirely accurate though is it? Hammond made quite clear during the course of the interview that his objection is to NoDeal not leaving altogether.
I believe no deal was his reluctant position and he would not have spilt a tear had we failed to leave and cancelled Art 50.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 11:33
  #9068 (permalink)  
 
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And good for Mr Hammond- colourless yes but calm pragmatic sensible man.

just the kind of person we need not lying rascist chauvinist egotistical bullies who are incompetent as well butt hat britain to today-and somone got upset because I referred to the UK as the Venezuela of Europe . no stable government- dubious politicians social instability falling out with all it neighbours- Ok there's no starvation yet but thats only a matter of time under Boris who has over committed the treasury about twenty times its income to buy the prime ministers job, and of course eh will do none of the things he promised to do no that that will matter to the Torygraph , Mail (average readership age 59 years) and Express (ok i did have dealings with the mob in the US but so what)
How far we have fallen as a country , its barely credible but sadly all true . And the people who bought the lies wont be the ones who suffer it will be their kids and grand kids.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 12:10
  #9069 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
That isn't entirely accurate though is it? Hammond made quite clear during the course of the interview that his objection is to NoDeal not leaving altogether.
Mr Hammond voted to have a referendum.
He stood on a manifesto clearly stating, no deal is better than a bad deal. And was elected.
He voted to enact A50.

At what point did Mr Hammond realise that he didn't agree with everything he voted for? At what point did his moral compass about turn?
Is he that stupid he had no idea that a no deal BREXIT was such a possibility, despite voting for it to take place? (Manifesto)

All those calling Hammond, Gaulke, Grieve men of honour, men of principle, are naive. They were quite happy to say what ever keeps them in power until they have to do as they said.



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Old 21st Jul 2019, 12:51
  #9070 (permalink)  
 
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But of course you conveniently overlook the fact that Hammond, unlike the ERG voted for the deal that TM had negotiated with the EU. This wasn't necessarily a "bad deal" under the circumstances. The circumstances being that it was the best available given the situation pertaining to the to the Irish border, a seemingly insoluble conundrum that the proponents of Brexit had totally failed to take into account.

Far be it from me to defend Tory politicians but those mentioned seem to be the decent, honourable ones compared to those prepared to rusk this country for the pursuit of mere peccadilloes.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 12:52
  #9071 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Marr to Hammond: "Do you think Theresa May agrees with you?"

Hammond, "You'll have to ask Theresa May that question."

The question was a simple DO YOU THINK. Not do you think Theresa May thinks you agree with her? The question could not have been made more simple with a yes, no, maybe answer possible, or even I can't say. And Marr let him get away with it.
Ah! Me Sir, please Sir, I know that one!

By that logic, any answer to the exam question "Why do you think that ...?" should get full marks.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 13:40
  #9072 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
But of course you conveniently overlook the fact that Hammond, unlike the ERG voted for the deal that TM had negotiated with the EU. This wasn't necessarily a "bad deal" under the circumstances. The circumstances being that it was the best available given the situation pertaining to the to the Irish border, a seemingly insoluble conundrum that the proponents of Brexit had totally failed to take into account.

Far be it from me to defend Tory politicians but those mentioned seem to be the decent, honourable ones compared to those prepared to rusk this country for the pursuit of mere peccadilloes.


You call anyone who has lied to get in a position of influence, decent and honourable. Let's not mix words here, they all lied to get in the position they are in now. They never just lied once either.

The only MPs who have any credibility are those, if there are any, who either rejected the referendum vote and have maintained that viewpoint, or those who have continually voted for no deal.


By your logic BJohnson is also decent and honourable.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 17:13
  #9073 (permalink)  
 
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So politicians are not allowed to change their views based on experience?

If that applied to everyone, the divorce courts would be out of business.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 18:43
  #9074 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
So politicians are not allowed to change their views based on experience?

If that applied to everyone, the divorce courts would be out of business.
That was my point. When did they change their minds. Just after the referendum? When they were elected in 2017?
Or when they realised that what they wanted they weren't going to get?

That sums up those who voted remain. If you lie for the case to remain, no problem. If you change your opinion to remain no problem.
Yet do the reverse and the insults etc start. (Not in your post, before the accusations start)

Some people may have changed their minds. Both ways. But you still haven't explained what happens if another vote is held. Remain gets the most votes. Is that the end of the matter? Do we check to see of people have changed their minds in a further 3 years? And again? And again?

Maybe you should tell us how this situation is resolved to everyone's satisfaction? Instead of constantly sniping, tell us the solution.


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Old 21st Jul 2019, 19:56
  #9075 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


That was my point. When did they change their minds. Just after the referendum? When they were elected in 2017?
Or when they realised that what they wanted they weren't going to get?

That sums up those who voted remain. If you lie for the case to remain, no problem. If you change your opinion to remain no problem.
Yet do the reverse and the insults etc start. (Not in your post, before the accusations start)

Some people may have changed their minds. Both ways. But you still haven't explained what happens if another vote is held. Remain gets the most votes. Is that the end of the matter? Do we check to see of people have changed their minds in a further 3 years? And again? And again?

Maybe you should tell us how this situation is resolved to everyone's satisfaction? Instead of constantly sniping, tell us the solution.


If you are asking me, the same answer since after the referendum. Brexit will happen, without a satisfactory agreement. And then it begins.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 20:22
  #9076 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
If you are asking me, the same answer since after the referendum. Brexit will happen, without a satisfactory agreement. And then it begins.
Well you are better than me, because I have no idea about a satisfactory solution.

I don't believe Brexit can be solved. It can't be ignored, nor can it be a success, unless people swallow their pride and everyone works for it.
That won't happen some people are desperate for it to fail. Just so they can say they were right.
Sad.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 20:43
  #9077 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
The only MPs who have any credibility are those, if there are any, who either rejected the referendum vote and have maintained that viewpoint, or those who have continually voted for no deal.
Well, there is one. But I dispute he has any credibility with those whose views are of any consequence. However, it cannot be denied that he has been entirely consistent throughout this whole wretched process. He refused to accept the need for a referendum, he denied the democratic legitimacy of its outcome and has studiously attempted to thwart the Brexit process throughout its mishandling by that useless woman. So for sheer consistency (and behaviour which should gain him a room in The Tower), you have to hand the accolade to that time-expired old fart, Kenneth Clarke.
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 05:59
  #9078 (permalink)  
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https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...%80%98actively

Labour MPs say Shadow Cabinet members ‘actively complicit’ in smearing anti-semitism whistleblowers

In a damning letter, backbenchers condemned the “officially sanctioned spin campaign” against former staff who spoke of anti-Jewish racism in the party’s ranks for a recent BBC Panorama programme. It comes ahead of a crunch Shadow Cabinet meeting on Monday to specifically discuss how to tackle the issue of anti-semitism internally.

The document, co-signed by Jewish Labour Movement chair Ruth Smeeth, Wes Streeting and John Mann, called for those on the frontbench to “examine their consciences” - as called for in a separate letter from the Jewish Leadership Council (JLC) and the Board of Deputies of British Jews.

The MPs said: “Since the broadcast of the Panorama documentary, too many members of the Shadow Cabinet have been silent bystanders to, or - worse still - actively complicit in, an officially sanctioned spin campaign against victims of racism and whistleblowers. We ask you to consider how you would react to any other employer acting in this way and on how this reflects on our Party as a champion of equality and workers’ rights.”......


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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 08:05
  #9079 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


Well you are better than me, because I have no idea about a satisfactory solution.

I don't believe Brexit can be solved. It can't be ignored, nor can it be a success, unless people swallow their pride and everyone works for it.
That won't happen some people are desperate for it to fail. Just so they can say they were right.
Sad.
Not so, remainers are oft said to have voted for their own selfish financial reasons, believing we'd be worse off if / when Brexit happens. Now we are staring the disaster that a no deal Brexit will bring in the face, certainly in the short term, I can assure you that (for my own personal, selfish financial reasons) I will be working as hard as I can to ensure it isn't. That doesn't mean that were there be a referendum on rejoining I'd vote any other way than to go back in.
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 08:35
  #9080 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Not so, remainers are oft said to have voted for their own selfish financial reasons, believing we'd be worse off if / when Brexit happens. Now we are staring the disaster that a no deal Brexit will bring in the face, certainly in the short term, I can assure you that (for my own personal, selfish financial reasons) I will be working as hard as I can to ensure it isn't. That doesn't mean that were there be a referendum on rejoining I'd vote any other way than to go back in.
+1 to that. But it's going to be tough.
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