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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 15th Jul 2019, 17:06
  #9001 (permalink)  
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I was surprised and flattered at how quickly you thought I (and others) would need educating
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 05:47
  #9002 (permalink)  
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It's an engaging title, the only problem would be knowing where to start after all....sadly, one has not been invited to participate or offer ones thoughts as part of the research.

Presented by one M.Portillo, now a born again travel presenter ( freeloading being a fringe benefit of course ) and recently seen under ORAC's feet......so to speak.....wandering around the Brighton sewage system. .....those of us who do not fondly recall his days with the unlamented deceased would muse that he found his natural habitat......

https://tbivision.com/2019/05/28/tra...for-channel-5/
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 06:31
  #9003 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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KnC reminds of one of those twee little ladies, sitting in her twee cottage surrounded by chintz and cats - writing vile poisonous anonymous letters to be posted to her neighbours and the the local newspaper. On the surface a caring Christian member of the community, but the bile just can’t stop bubbling out.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 07:11
  #9004 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
KnC reminds of one of those twee little ladies, sitting in her twee cottage surrounded by chintz and cats - writing vile poisonous anonymous letters to be posted to her neighbours and the the local newspaper. On the surface a caring Christian member of the community, but the bile just can’t stop bubbling out.
ORAC....nice to read a bit of lyrical waxing in the morning......shurely inshpired by reading the (self ) Chosen One....... Boris !

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Old 16th Jul 2019, 11:18
  #9005 (permalink)  
 
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On the Oakeshott/Tice issue, I was just clearing the swamp, well nettles anyway, and a song came on the wireless that brought this to mind. Joe Jackson - "Is she really going out with him?"
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 09:54
  #9006 (permalink)  
 
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Strangely, our daily Guardian links seem to have dried up. Nothing to do with today’s full-page advert about anti-Semitism exposing just what a seething maggots-nest Labour has become? All the more revealing and damaging as paid for, not by political opposition but long-time supporters.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 14:29
  #9008 (permalink)  
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The EU Commission throwing their toys out of the cot - though I am not sure what else they can have expected him so say.

They could always, of course, announce that, having breached the agreement, it is void and the UK is out of the EU - but I somehow doubt it.......

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...king-tqftd2vhk

Stephen Barclay angered EU with Brexit ‘backtracking’

The EU warned Stephen Barclay that he was putting Britain in legal breach of the terms of the Brexit extension until October 31 during bad-tempered talks in Brussels last week.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s lead negotiator, expressed outrage that the Brexit secretary had told him five times that the draft withdrawal agreement was dead. Mr Barnier told the cabinet minister that he was “backtracking” and “deviating” from a legal guarantee that government would not undermine the withdrawal agreement during the extension.

“Barclay was told he was backtracking and in breach of the terms of the extension that was signed by Theresa May in April,” a diplomat briefed on the meeting said. “The terms of the extension is clear. It is for ratification not renegotiation or to create new problems with its implementation.”

The legally binding European decision to extend the delay to Brexit signed by the prime minister explicitly rules out reopening the deal or “hampering” its ratification, reflecting the fact that the government remains a signatory to the withdrawal treaty text. “Any unilateral commitment, statement or other act by the UK should be compatible with the letter and the spirit of the withdrawal agreement, and must not hamper its implementation,” the legal text of the decision said. “Such an extension cannot be used to start negotiations on the future relationship.”

The meeting between Mr Barnier and Mr Barclay on Tuesday last week has rung alarm bells across the EU which has stepped up preparations for “brutal and confrontational” talks with a new Conservative prime minister. One senior diplomat described the encounter as the most hostile in three years of contacts since the Brexit referendum as the cabinet minister seemed to “tear up the previously constructive approach taken by Theresa May”.

“If this is what is coming then we will be heading for no-deal very quickly,” a senior EU diplomat said this week. “We are not going to accept that a new government tears up the agreement — or even the terms of the extension that was given after a British request.”

This morning Mr Barclay confirmed he had told Mr Barnier that Mrs May’s deal was effectively dead in a heated meeting in Brussels last week. Appearing before the Commons Brexit committee, he said there was some “misleading information” about the meeting, but added: “In terms of the withdrawal agreement, what I said was that the House had rejected it three times, including the third time by a significant margin; that the European election results in my view had further hardened attitudes across the House and that the text, unchanged, I did not envisage going through the House.

“I don’t think that was a particularly controversial observation.”........



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Old 17th Jul 2019, 14:45
  #9009 (permalink)  
 
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Given the 9,020 preceding posts and their rather less than universal sense of compromise, one could be forgiven for thinking that the Tory's new Leader will have a hard row to hoe to "bring the country back together again". It is unfortunate that Johnson's meaning, at least, is "do it my way". He (and to a lesser extent, Hunt) completely fail to take on board that the objection to Brexit is just that - an objection to the whole thing, not just 'backstops' or similar technicalities.I do not wish to leave the EU ...period! Even if somehow someone was 'magicked' out of Unicornland who could fiddle and finaigle a new form of 500 plus pages of words, I do NOT wish to take authority away from a reasonably competent organisation and hand it over to the bunch of raving chauvinists who have brought us to this impasse. Talk about the patients taking over the asylum!! It is a task beyond my imagination to believe that the present higher echelons of politics, in either of the main Parties, could offer the UK anything even equal to, never mind better than, our 2016 conditions. The intellectually bankrupt self-seekers leading the Brexit charge can only resort to what Dr Johnson (odd namesakecoincidence) accurately described as "the last refuge of the scoundrel".
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 15:05
  #9010 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Strangely, our daily Guardian links seem to have dried up. Nothing to do with today’s full-page advert about anti-Semitism exposing just what a seething maggots-nest Labour has become? All the more revealing and damaging as paid for, not by political opposition but long-time supporters.
I guess your memory is fading. From the Boris thread to which you contribute:

Originally Posted by Krystal n Chips
There is a possibility some of you may be deprived of these insights because we are hoping to get away for a few days before the annual rug rat infestation / migration begins and we have a policy of being t'internet free on holiday.......
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 15:58
  #9011 (permalink)  
 
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Cornish Jack,

Spot On, I couldn't agree more!
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 16:16
  #9012 (permalink)  
 
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An interesting interview on Newsnight with Benyamin Habib. Whilst campaigning for Brexit Mr.Habib is chairman of a property company with almost £200m set aside to cash in on a collapse of property values after a No Deal Brexit.

this would appear to be a clear conflict of interests between his duties as an elected member and those of a property developer hoping to cash in on the chaos that he and his colleagues hope to inflict on this country.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 17:05
  #9013 (permalink)  
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CJ,
completely fail to take on board that the objection to Brexit is just that - an objection to the whole thing, not just 'backstops' or similar technicalities.I do not wish to leave the EU .
Not quite sure what you mean here. Are you saying that we all object to Brexit, or that the majority have changed their mind, or that we were right all along and should remain?

I see things are much simpler. The two PM candidates are committed to leave. The majority of PMs were re-elected with the promise to implement the Referendum vote. The majority of MPs have voted against every option to date. What we want or don't want is no longer an option.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 17:47
  #9014 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Given the 9,020 preceding posts and their rather less than universal sense of compromise, one could be forgiven for thinking that the Tory's new Leader will have a hard row to hoe to "bring the country back together again".
"Bring the country back together again" so far as is reasonably possible is dead easy:

#RevokeA50

A fair number of people will moan mildly for a couple of weeks, but most people will just be relieved that they can get back to real life.

And a tiny minority will moan very vociferously forever ... but guess what, if they weren't moaning about Europe they'd be moaning about something else. These are indeed the people who can't be brought back "together", but then they were never "together" in the first place, so who cares?
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 17:52
  #9015 (permalink)  
 
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GtW

Can you hear yourself sometimes?

’A few people will moan mildly for a couple of weeks’.

You mean like the remainers have been whinging ever since the referendum?

So, by your own logic, we are perfectly justified in ignoring the bleatings of the remainers and carrying on with Brexit then?

Honestly, you believe we can ignore anything as long as it agrees with your world view. Am I correct?

In summary, after 9000+ posts, Brexiteers still want to Brexit and remainers still want to remain.

Shock, horror.

BV
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 18:06
  #9016 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
... I do not wish to leave the EU ...period! ...
And millions wish for the exact opposite.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 18:37
  #9017 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
And millions wish for the exact opposite.
Many of whom just want to get on with life.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 05:31
  #9018 (permalink)  
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https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...mparing-jeremy

Labour frontbencher sacked for comparing Jeremy Corbyn's leadership to 'last days of Hitler'

A party spokesperson confirmed that Baroness Hayter, Labour's Brexit spokesperson in the Lords, had been removed from her post "with immediate effect" over the "deeply offensive" comments. The move comes after HuffPost UK reported that Baroness Hayter - who is also Labour's deputy leader in the Lords - accused Mr Corbyn of having a "bunker mentality" and said senior figures around the leadership had refused to share key information with Labour's ruling National Executive Committee.

The peer told a meeting of the centre-left Labour First group earlier this week: "Those of you who haven’t [read the book] will have seen the film ‘Bunker’, about the last days of Hitler, where you stop receiving any information into the inner group which suggests that things are not going the way you want."

And she added: "That seems to be where we are at the moment: having the leadership in a bunker so they are not hearing in those views, that evidence, that is in conflict with what they are trying to do, to the extent that even undermines what they are trying to do. Because if you are trying to win an election and you don’t honestly look at the polls, then you are not going to be in a position to take the action to win."

A Labour spokesperson on Wednesday night confirmed that Baroness Hayter had been sacked over the comments. They said: "Dianne Hayter has been sacked from her frontbench position with immediate effect for her deeply offensive remarks about Jeremy Corbyn and his office. To compare the Labour leader and Labour Party staff working to elect a Labour government to the Nazi regime is truly contemptible, and grossly insensitive to Jewish staff in particular."

It is understood that Baroness Hayter will remain as Labour's deputy leader in the Lords as the post is elected by fellow peers.

The move comes amid a bitter row in Labour over the way the party has responded to a BBC Panorama documentary which saw former party officials allege that senior figures close to Mr Corbyn had interfered in anti-semitism cases. The party has strongly denied any meddling and has lodged a complaint with the BBC. But it has come under fire for describing ex-party party staff who took part in the documentary as "disaffected former officials including those who have always opposed Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership".

Labour MP Wes Streeting called the move to oust Baroness Hayter a "gross over-reaction" that would only "reinforce" claims of a "bunker mentality at the top" of the party. He added on Twitter: "This epitomises it. Nice to know that swift action is taken to protect @jeremycorbyn’s feelings, but shame we can’t act against racists."






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Old 18th Jul 2019, 06:18
  #9019 (permalink)  
 
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Ah well, if it's a case that we have moved on from debating anything on this forum to simply pointing at squirrels by cut and pasting/post anything to detract from the real shambles that is unravelling I may as well join in. I offer the following ..from long time Brexit advocate Richard North's blog, a piece entitled

"Brexit: Rees-Mogg - is he really that thick?

Tucked in behind the Telegraph paywall is a piece by Jacob Rees-Mogg which manages to combine an extraordinary level of ignorance with the patronising superiority which is the hallmark of the man.
.....

In his article, therefore, we have a man purporting to set himself up as the great authority on matters to do with a no-deal exit, making three of the most basic mistakes possible – indicating a most profound ignorance of the subject. Yet what really sticks in the craw is his patronising attitude as he marks down Hammond's view of a no-deal Brexit as "pure silliness".

Rees-Mogg, of course, is not the only person to take such a lofty view of opposing ideas, with the academic Lorand Bartels resorting to a similar epithet when challenged over his own errors. Bluntly, someone who resorts to this sort of language isn't all there. In the case of Rees-Mogg, this betrays an essential lack of maturity which speaks much of his personal inadequacy as a human being.

The trouble is that here we're not dealing with just any ordinary backbencher – if there is such a thing. Jacob Rees-Mogg is chairman of the European Research Group, supposedly leading the intellectual spearhead for the "hard Brexit" case. But, if after three years down the line from the referendum, we have such a key figure displaying this level of ignorance, there is no hope.

The point here is that Rees-Mogg is not on his own. This is a man venting his errors in the pages of the Telegraph. This is a national daily newspaper, where contributions are supposedly checked for accuracy. Clearly, when they vetted this authored piece, the editors went AWOL.

What comes across from this is that there is no longer any premium on accuracy or knowledge. As long as your face fits and you are saying things it wants to hear, the Telegraph is home to any manner of ill-conceived tosh, betraying the trust of its readers and abandoning its duty to present factually correct information.

Under such conditions, it is almost impossible to conduct a rational debate. Where error and misinformation is freely allowed, vested with privilege and prestige, mere facts and argument cannot compete. The most carefully constructed case can be swept aside in an instant by a surge of ignorant drivel – polemics and prestige trump the facts every time.

But there has to be more to this than mere stupidity – an issue that has fascinated and troubled this blog for years. More recently, though, I quoted Simon Kuper, who argued that some people sound stupid or ignorant because they are stupid or ignorant. And, in this context, it is not difficult to concede that Rees-Mogg is saying stupid things because he really is that stupid.

Nonetheless, I had promised to explore this phenomenon further, as to why politics these days seems to be dominated by institutionalised stupidity. And if this is having such an effect on contemporary politics, it is something that can no longer be ignored. Stupidity now seems to be a major influence on events.

On the other hand, if someone could come up with another plausible explanation as to how a high-profile MP can prosper on the back of such profound ignorance, with the apparent approval of a major national newspaper, I'm all ears.
EU Referendum
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 06:58
  #9020 (permalink)  
 
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Odd you should complain at the lack of debate when the accompanying article contains nothing other than repeated accusations of stupidity against Rees Mogg with no debate or even opinion on any aspect of Brexit
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