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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 4th Dec 2018, 09:11
  #881 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
What they reported in the bulletin was rather more detailed than those two tweets. As so often Laurak needs to think before she launches into her reports, to camera or on twitter - I don't really know how she got the job; she's not anything like the calibre of Robinson or his predecessors in the Political Editor's role - gender balance possibly comes to mind?
Kuenssberg needs to think on but James Mates is doing fine? Oh mate...
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 09:11
  #882 (permalink)  
 
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No of course they are not going to toss it aside. However a reconsideration in view of the mass of information that we now possess that wasn't available at the time of the first vote isn't at all unreasonable. And not least it gives an opportunity for those like myself to have a say when I would not commit to a vote last time due to a lack of solid information. I would have accepted Brexit had it actually been beneficial to the UK. I think that it is now very clear that it is in fact detrimental.

On LauraK, I prefer Robinson too, despite the fact that he's a Tory. But she's ok.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 10:46
  #883 (permalink)  
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Parliament would have to vote to retract the EU withdrawal bill anyway, so the “good faith” requirement would be met.

I see see this as yet another indication that the EU is still willing to bend over backward to stop the UK leaving - and additional sweeteners on rules for free movement and social security etc will be being offered behind the scenes. They want a second referendum just as the6 had in Ireland etc.

I would expect the EU to amend the wording of Art.50 so future potential leavers don't have an easy option for cancelling it
The article is in the Lisbon Treaty. Any change to the treaty requires unanimous consent, including referenda in several countries. Regardless, I imagine mor than one eastern or Southern European country would veto any change to the article, just to have it available as a threat in future negotiations on migration, budget or interference in national political or judicial rules....
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 10:47
  #884 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
wiggy, try dropping VAT levels and see how far you get....
Quite a long way, probably. The EU only has any say over the "mandatory" bit of the VAT (5% IIRC) which forms the contribution - the other ~17% is a UK-imposed and UK-controlled tax which we could remove on a whim if we wished.

What we CAN'T do is amend the *scope* of VAT - which items are zero-rated. This is because it creates artificial differences between prices in different countries, distorting trade and promoting smuggling. The UK was given quite a lot of leighway on this a few years ago, but we abused it so now NO member state can unilaterally zero-rate things.

PDR
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 11:26
  #885 (permalink)  
 
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PDR1 thanks for the clarification, it was of course the UK trying to remove the final 5% VAT on sanitary products that caused the scuffle with the EU: the tampon tax debacle.

Out of interest which areas did the UK overstep the leeway they were given?
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 12:07
  #886 (permalink)  
 
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Out of interest which areas did the UK overstep the leeway they were given?
Small cider producers was one example. The UK was subject to infringement procedures as small producers had a different regime to the larger ones. This is an example of how the 'one size fits all' approach is bad for small business and favours large producers who are able to lobby the EU.

Taxation: Commission requests the UNITED KINDGOM to amend its excise duty legislation granting exemption for cider and perry made by small producers

The European Commission has today formally requested the United Kingdom to amend its excise duty scheme that exempts from duty cider and perry made by small domestic producers. This exemption concerns producers, whose production does not exceed 70 hectolitres over a period of 12 consecutive months and who make such products for sale.

EU excise duty rules oblige Member States to levy an excise duty on alcohol and alcoholic beverages. There are no provisions which would provide for an exception to the general obligation to levy excise duty in respect of cider and perry made for sale by small domestic producers. The UK excise duty scheme therefore contravenes EU legislation, which was unanimously agreed and which does not allow for such exemption in any of the Member States.

The Commission's request takes the form of a reasoned opinion. In the absence of a satisfactory response within two months, the Commission may refer the United Kingdom to the Court of Justice of the European Union.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 12:15
  #887 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Widger View Post
Small cider producers was one example. The UK was subject to infringement procedures as small producers had a different regime to the larger ones. This is an example of how the 'one size fits all' approach is bad for small business and favours large producers who are able to lobby the EU.
Not a good example.
At a time when governments are increasing the tax on alcoholic drinks for health reasons, why should some of them be exempted from excise duty because of the circumstances of the producer? It's still the same product with the same effects.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 12:19
  #888 (permalink)  
 
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I think it is a good example of the EU favouring large volume producers of what ever substance (and whatever your ethical viewpoint) and gives a clue of why many farmers, fishermen and small businesses in the UK were anti EU come the referendum. We were asked to give an example of the UK overstepping tax leeway. I responded with one and it is certainly not the same product at all.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 12:50
  #889 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Widger View Post
I think it is a good example of the EU favouring large volume producers of what ever substance (and whatever your ethical viewpoint) and gives a clue of why many farmers, fishermen and small businesses in the UK were anti EU come the referendum. We were asked to give an example of the UK overstepping tax leeway. I responded with one and it is certainly not the same product at all.
No difference at all to what happens within the UK, where only big business can afford to lobby MPs and donate large amounts to political parties.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 15:43
  #890 (permalink)  

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"Opinion is that the UK can unilaterally withdraw A50 declaration."

Good, then let's withdraw A50 and save everyone a lot of hassle and money.
And no shit from the French (they appear to have enough of their own at the moment).

Britain belongs in the EU - the idea of leaving was just typical British bloody-mindedness.

Mac
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 15:47
  #891 (permalink)  
 
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Could remainers say how remaining in the EU ...
a...benefits them personally
b...benefits the UK as a whole
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 16:03
  #892 (permalink)  
 
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"The Ayes have it"! The government in the last few minutes, have been found guilty of contempt of parliament. Quite rightly too. The vote was 311 to 293.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 16:16
  #893 (permalink)  
 
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Just when you thought they couldn't get more shambolic.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 16:33
  #894 (permalink)  
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What is strange is that it seems the MP most likely to charged with contempt is either the Attorney General or the deputy PM - not TM herself.

Which seems a bit like arresting and charging the monkey not the organ grinder.......
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 16:43
  #895 (permalink)  
 
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Parliament is taking back control. Just not in the way Brexit supporters hoped.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 16:56
  #896 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papajuliet View Post
Could remainers say how remaining in the EU ...
a...benefits them personally
b...benefits the UK as a whole
Yes.

Unlike leavers, who cannot answer either of those questions in respect of leaving.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 17:20
  #897 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papajuliet View Post
Could remainers say how remaining in the EU ...
a...benefits them personally
b...benefits the UK as a whole
Easy.

Freedom to live and work in 28 countries without let or hindrance. Freedom to trade with my customers in a borderless market encompassing 500m people. The certainty that those customers with whom I trade domestically & who import goods for me to deal with can place orders with me knowing those goods will be available for me to work with when they tell me they will be.

Extensive consumer protections that have ensured my phone doesn't explode in my pocket & my daughter's cot isn't painted with tasty lead for example.

As for all of us, a bespoke, tailored voice in Europe, with multiple opt outs & real influence over our nearest partners, where us Brits do 44% of all our trading, visit more than anywhere else in the world for holidays & depend on for the security of millions of jobs.

These are known, quantifiable benefits & only scratch the surface. Meanwhile on the leave side, two & a half years and counting & no plan, nothing that can be listed, tested or costed. Just a repetitive cycle of sound bites about control, sovereignty, forward looking, sumlit uplands & more entirely unpersuasive word soup AFAICS.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 17:21
  #898 (permalink)  
 
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Remaining doesn't actually benefit anyone. What it does is to remove the considerable penalties, both in monetary terms and otherwise that Brexit is now virtually universally will impose.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 17:59
  #899 (permalink)  
 
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Government defeated three times in an hour. How much more can May take?
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 18:12
  #900 (permalink)  
 
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I have zero sympathy for May. She's treated parliament with contempt throughout her premiership, being forced into court by Gina Miller to force her to give it the sovereignty it deserves to name but one example. No one who had opponents labelled enemies of the people warrants any regard when trying to portray themselves as a unifier now they're weakened. Not buying it for a minute.
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