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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 5th Jul 2019, 13:03
  #8901 (permalink)  
 
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I think this is as much an issue with Theresa May as with Boris Johnson.

From the BBC website:

But, this is not just about the keeping of secrets, but Theresa May's desire to keep political control.It's suggested that the real issue was a lack of trust and hostility between Mr Johnson and Theresa May. One source believes Mr Johnson was excluded from seeing some sensitive information because there was a hostile relationship between him and Downing Street, not because of reservations from the intelligence services. And they suggest that despite early doubts among the security services about him, they eased over time and by the time he left his post, they had good relations.
But you just keep on with the hating......
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 17:00
  #8902 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
One of his biggest PM campaign donors was the beneficiary of a controversial Boris planning decision a few years ago where he was allowed to develop a site without the mandatory inclusion of social housing-didnt know Boris was corrupt before now.
How dare you Sir, are you implying that the grateful property developer was so beholden to our favourite son that he is sponsoring Boris's campaign as a favour for past considerations?

😈

Remember Harold Wilson's favourite rain coat?

​​​​​
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 18:34
  #8903 (permalink)  
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Nobody sponsors politicians for past favours - only in the hope of future favours. The vast majority being disappointed.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 19:59
  #8904 (permalink)  
 
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May I recommend a book called ‘Exit Day’ then we will all know what is going to happen.��
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 20:09
  #8905 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Just a little update on Boris world for readers of our mass media. While the BJ lovers were spouting nonsense about him making the country happier a couple of papers mentioned more relevant issues
One of his biggest PM campaign donors was the beneficiary of a controversial Boris planning decision a few years ago where he was allowed to develop a site without the mandatory inclusion of social housing-didnt know Boris was corrupt before now

Also it seems that out left wing pinko security services -surely not?- withheld info from BJ when he was Foreign Sec because he couldn't be trusted with it-just the man for PM then. No surprise there then
Yep, all the same the lot of em. All beholden to the deep pockets of the Developers and Speculators. Not an ounce of decency in any of them.

#Draintheswamp
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 20:52
  #8906 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Nobody sponsors politicians for past favours - only in the hope of future favours. The vast majority being disappointed.
Of course you know I was joking 😁
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 21:17
  #8907 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
If we had a little less confrontation and a less tribal approach then Brexit would have been done by now, and there might actually have been a solution to the problem of funding social care which will make the issues surrounding Brexit pale into insignificance as we continue to extend human lives that would normally have ended naturally years before, without any clear idea how to fund the services required to finance this.
Politics will aways be so, I suspect. What's needed at times like this is a leader, someone prepared to take a decision, ignore the focus groups, and ride out the inevitable bad news headlines from the BBC and other mainstream media.

Unfortunately I dont think we have any leaders left in the swamp that is Westminster.

In more good news Brexit should help with the social care crisis as our thirld world status should ensure a rapid drop in life expectancy
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 04:58
  #8908 (permalink)  
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Just for Gertie......you remember you said something about you wishing to be able to say "I wuz there " ?.......looks like yer wish will be granted ! ....... better get the Sat Nav charged........and best of luck trying to find somewhere to park in Brecon by the way.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-conservatives
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 09:04
  #8909 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Just for Gertie......you remember you said something about you wishing to be able to say "I wuz there " ?.......looks like yer wish will be granted ! ....... better get the Sat Nav charged........and best of luck trying to find somewhere to park in Brecon by the way.
Can't drive at the moment. Public transport looks like several hours by train ... followed by several hours by bus. So basically a full day travelling each day. Which doesn't leave much of the weekend for actual campaign work. So I fear I'll have to give this one a miss.

That's a curious headline btw. I thought the fight was against the #Brexshit Party Ltd, not against the Tories, whom one would assume to be third or fourth.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 09:22
  #8910 (permalink)  
 
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Politics will aways be so, I suspect. What's needed at times like this is a leader, someone prepared to take a decision, ignore the focus groups, and ride out the inevitable bad news headlines from the BBC and other mainstream media.
Sadly, British politics may always be so, however in systems where PR routinely results in minority or coalition arrangements cooperation is the way forward, rather than confrontation. Nations such as The Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Scandinavia seem to do far better from this system than our pathetic, polarised system.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:14
  #8911 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
...our pathetic, polarised system.
The UK is one of the only eu member countries which doesn't have, and will probably never have, an *actual* far-right** party in or nearly in power.

Yet the libofascists whine like babies that the Brexit Party (for example) make inroads when the Tories and labor constantly lie. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

**far-right does not and should not just mean someone who thinks immigration is out of control, nor someone who thinks tax is too high, despite the illiberals whining about people who suggest either/both. #hashtag
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:26
  #8912 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rustle View Post
The UK is one of the only eu member countries which doesn't have, and will probably never have, an *actual* far-right** party in or nearly in power.

Yet the libofascists whine like babies that the Brexit Party (for example) make inroads when the Tories and labor constantly lie. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

**far-right does not and should not just mean someone who thinks immigration is out of control, nor someone who thinks tax is too high, despite the illiberals whining about people who suggest either/both. #hashtag
The only EU countries that can be said to have a far right party in power are Hungary, and to a lesser extent, Poland. The former frightens me, reminds me of other notable populist / nationalists.

However, in the spirit of democracy I'd far rather see a party that receives 14% of the vote getting +/- 14% of the representation in parliament. Rules can be put in place to ensure minority parties don't get parliamentary representation; in Germany the threshold is, I believe 5% of the popular vote. Brexiteers are wedded to the concept of the "will of the people", and if that will is for Farage and his extremists to win 50% of the seats in parliament then that, I am afraid, should be the consequences of democracy.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:33
  #8913 (permalink)  
 
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Ah the "Farage extremists" you say...

Yet these same people repeat the "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" mantra in this place and elsewhere.

N'owt queer as folk


..and you forgot I said "in *or near* power", so include Germany, France, Sweden, Italy and Holland in your list at least.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 17:07
  #8914 (permalink)  
 
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Looked up the Graunial link so beloved of those who use the term Brexshit and the like. Not for long though as they once again implore simple minded souls to make a financial contribution so that they can keep their hard of thinking pretend journo's employed. I detest begging. Most un British.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 18:11
  #8915 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rustle View Post
Ah the "Farage extremists" you say...

Yet these same people repeat the "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" mantra in this place and elsewhere.

N'owt queer as folk


..and you forgot I said "in *or near* power", so include Germany, France, Sweden, Italy and Holland in your list at least.
If you have included France on that list because of the existence of Rassemblement national have you had a look at their current policies and done a compare and contrast with the policies espoused by some in the Brexit Party?
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 19:46
  #8916 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Sadly, British politics may always be so, however in systems where PR routinely results in minority or coalition arrangements cooperation is the way forward, rather than confrontation. Nations such as The Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Scandinavia seem to do far better from this system than our pathetic, polarised system.
But do they. really? You've obviously, deliberately, missed out some of the really unstable ones such as Italy, Belgium, Greece, all of whom either have very frequent elections or take an age to form a Government out of the mess that PR has left them in.

Even many of the good examples you quote have dubious qualities. It cant be any coincidence, surely, that a consistently centrist or centre left leaning coalition breeds a far right extremism? The like of which we really dont see in this country (as highlighted by a previous poster)

Last edited by andrewn; 6th Jul 2019 at 22:05.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 19:59
  #8917 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy
If you have included France on that list because of the existence of Rassemblement national have you had a look at their current policies and done a compare and contrast with the policies espoused by some in the Brexit Party?
"Some" in BP will undoubtedly espouse views similar to, if not copied from, France's 2nd place Presidential candidate's party.

Some in the [current] UK labor party hold pretty unlikeable views as well, especially if your memory or education include the first 50 years of the 20th century.

What's your point?
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 21:46
  #8918 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
But do they. really? You've obviously, deliberately, missed out some of the really unstable ones such as Italy, Belgium, Greece, all of whom either have very frequent elections or take an age to form a Government out of the mess that PR has left them in.)
Of that list, Belgium seems to run quite happily for many months at a time with no government at all. I sometimes wonder whether we should try that.
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Old 7th Jul 2019, 05:15
  #8919 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rustle View Post
"Some" in BP will undoubtedly espouse views similar to, if not copied from, France's 2nd place Presidential candidate's party.

Some in the [current] UK labor party hold pretty unlikeable views as well, especially if your memory or education include the first 50 years of the 20th century.

What's your point?
The point is IMHO any thoughts/hints that of course "we" in the UK wouldn't elect "facists" to power whereas those continentals are much more vulnerable to doing so smacks of exceptionalism at the very least.

I'm interested in knowing which one of the French political bodies/political parties is the "Fascist" party that has a high chance of taking power in France, and making the point that if people are thinking that party is the RN ( LePen's "firm", the the party formerly known as the FN) then I think it is fair to point out that the RN have publically tried to give the appearance of moving back from the extreme right and more towards the centre than was previously the case, having seen what has worked in the UK for Mr Farage and his mates....

Last edited by wiggy; 7th Jul 2019 at 06:31.
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Old 7th Jul 2019, 05:50
  #8920 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Blossy View Post
Looked up the Graunial link so beloved of those who use the term Brexshit and the like. Not for long though as they once again implore simple minded souls to make a financial contribution so that they can keep their hard of thinking pretend journo's employed. I detest begging. Most un British.
Sadly, and this will clearly be a revelation to you, I have never used the term underlined above and, erm, to the best of my knowledge, neither has the Guardian......there again, you are the third contributor to be confused about the content of my posts,.....all of whom have the same background...what a surprise !. .......and, unfortunately, your affliction gets worse, notably with the word "begging ".....true, the Guardian does ask for people to subscribe ...worth every penny I'm pleased to say but, if this act so appals you, simply pop into any newsagent and purchase a copy with ?...cash .......easy ! .

Of course, to salve your conscience, you could ask for a years subscription as a Christmas present...the perfect gift !

Presumably to your way of thunking, any organisation that asks for donations or subscriptions or payment is, therefore, "begging "

GTW..yep, getting to Brecon by train would be a shade problematic thanks to "Honest Ernie " ......

Here's a nice Guardian link........once you see the initials I.D-S, he of the emulating a 3 yr old who has just got and extra portion of jelly and ice cream through a tantrum fame, then you know the opinions of the security chief are valid...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...vous-breakdown


I

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 7th Jul 2019 at 06:12.
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