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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:22
  #8741 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
ATNotts

True, no CCTV, but the same staff are indeed present continuity from 0700-2200. Not only that, no breaks, and usually sufficient time for toilet breaks etc without missing someone. We also tend to know the voters, not all but enough that we would probably spot someone coming twice. Some legitimately come twice and are recognised.
That's good to know. It doesn't encourage me to join the team of election staff though!! Too much like hard work.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:24
  #8742 (permalink)  
 
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Matliss was a disgrace. I am no fan of Boris but when other candidates were allowed to speak with minimal intervention he was continually talked over by her. Moderators of debate should do just that, moderate, not interrupt ad nauseum. As for the debate it revealed very little. Rory looked like a schoolboy trying to justify himself from the naughty step, Gove was as unctuous as ever, Hunt came over reasonably well, Javed talked a good pitch and Boris struggled to get a word in. Another wasted hour I won't get back.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:31
  #8743 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...ndum-rhm6k2kxt

Jeremy Corbyn to back second Brexit referendum

Jeremy Corbyn will back a move today for Labour to change its Brexit policy and support a second referendum in all circumstances.

The shadow cabinet is due to discuss the plan to make Labour’s stance decisively pro-Remain. A paper drawn up by Andrew Fisher, Mr Corbyn’s head of policy, recommends that Labour support a second referendum on any deal negotiated with Brussels. A senior Labour source confirmed that Mr Corbyn was endorsing the shift in policy, adding: “It is a moment.”.......

Senior figures, including Emily Thornberry, the shadow foreign secretary, and Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, have been pushing for a change in approach. They have faced resistance from Mr Corbyn’s aides, including Seumas Milne, his head of communications. The move has also been opposed by a minority in the shadow cabinet.

One shadow cabinet minister said that the European elections had made the shift inevitable. “It is a question of getting on the front foot now or having it forced upon us at conference. I’ve previously been sceptical but I don’t think there is a choice any more.”........

Most shadow cabinet ministers have yet to see the Fisher paper that they will discuss today. There will not be a vote or an immediate announcement. However, Mr Corbyn is expected to outline the change in policy in a speech in the coming weeks. It will then go forward to be formally adopted at the Labour conference in September. One source familiar with its contents said that the plan would commit Labour to opposing any kind of Brexit deal unless it was subject to a second referendum. The party is already opposed to a no-deal Brexit.

Another Labour source, who had not seen the paper, said that it would be an uphill struggle for Mr Corbyn to persuade Remainers that he had genuinely converted to a so-called People’s Vote. “Jeremy could run down Whitehall in a People’s Vote onesie and a lot of people would still not be convinced that he really believed it,” they said. “He has got a lot of work to do to ensure that the message is clear and unambiguous.”.......



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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:43
  #8744 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gipsy Queen View Post
Sentiments supported by tonight's television bunfight with the irritatingly interventionist Maitliss. Not one of the participants evinced any obvious aptitude for the position which they are seeking - is this the best that we can expect? If so, God help us. And the simian Stewart held the occasion and the viewers in so little regard that he could not manage the courtesy of properly dressing with a tie. Perhaps he wishes to be perceived as being cool. Very statesmanlike.

I agree that Boris is the only candidate to be taken seriously but his lack-lustre and characteristically bumbling performance this evening demonstrates that even his candidature is far from being ideal. This televised circus did, however, vindicate his absence from the earlier so-called debate. Ronald Reagan was bright enough to understand that he was not intellectually over-endowed but he certainly was sufficiently savvy to surround himself with outstanding people who very successfully did the heavy lifting - he proved an outstanding President. Perhaps Boris might follow the example but I fear he has little of any quality to net from the political pool and our civil service has become so politicised that he may get little support from that quarter. Regardless of what transpires in the immediate future, there can be little doubt that we are in for a very rough ride indeed and as Mr Cheetah so presciently suggests, a new Dark Age.
Ref Rory Stewart. I think you’ll find all the candidates started off wearing a tie with their personal microphones neatly attached to them. Except Stewart’s mic was attached to his jacket lapel from the start - the only one. It’s almost as though he knew he was going to take his tie off partway through the debate.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:58
  #8745 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post


Ref Rory Stewart. I think you’ll find all the candidates started off wearing a tie with their personal microphones neatly attached to them. Except Stewart’s mic was attached to his jacket lapel from the start - the only one. It’s almost as though he knew he was going to take his tie off partway through the debate.
I think it was infuriation with regard to the studio set up; someone had to get that seat, I don't know if there was a ballot to sort out who sat where, but whoever got that seat would have had the same issue. That combined with the moderation, and the standard of debate I think lead him to lose the plot somewhat. As an advocate for Stewart, I thought that was by far his worst performance (and he's done plenty in the last 2 weeks or so) of the campaign.

I expect him to be knocked out today - but also expect he will be the leader after this one. Whether, in the wake of a potential Brexit debacle he is ever PM is a question for another day.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 08:03
  #8746 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I think it was infuriation with regard to the studio set up; someone had to get that seat, I don't know if there was a ballot to sort out who sat where, but whoever got that seat would have had the same issue. That combined with the moderation, and the standard of debate I think lead him to lose the plot somewhat. As an advocate for Stewart, I thought that was by far his worst performance (and he's done plenty in the last 2 weeks or so) of the campaign.

I expect him to be knocked out today - but also expect he will be the leader after this one. Whether, in the wake of a potential Brexit debacle he is ever PM is a question for another day.
Stewart came to our attention a few years ago during a television interview concerning the Middle East. We thought then he was a potential leader in the making. I think his time will come, but not now, too early.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 08:17
  #8747 (permalink)  
 
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Another Labour source, who had not seen the paper, said that it would be an uphill struggle for Mr Corbyn to persuade Remainers that he had genuinely converted to a so-called People’s Vote. “Jeremy could run down Whitehall in a People’s Vote onesie and a lot of people would still not be convinced that he really believed it,” they said. “He has got a lot of work to do to ensure that the message is clear and unambiguous.”.......
Indeed! Actually Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn have a lot in common insofar as you just don't really know where they stand, and both try to say things that satisfy the audience they are addressing rather than be honest over what they actually believe.

Johnson alternately rejects or accepts the third LHR runway; accepts or rejects HS2; thinks Trump is useless or wonderful; supports UK being in Europe, then supports Brexit. It would be just as likely that once he's got the reins of power (which is all he's really interested in - another parallel with Corbyn there!) he'll about turn on Brexit as leave with no deal. Nigel Farage is right in his assessment that you can't trust Boris (don't think I've ever said "right" and "Farage" in the same sentence before!!).
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:06
  #8748 (permalink)  
 
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What is particularly worrying is the YouGov poll that says 63% of Brexit supporters are prepared for long term economic damage as a price worth paying. I certainly would not support Remian under similar circumstances. It's rather as if they were being asked if they would put up with economic damage to win WW2. These people are living in a fantasy world.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:16
  #8749 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
What is particularly worrying is the YouGov poll that says 63% of Brexit supporters are prepared for long term economic damage as a price worth paying. I certainly would not support Remian under similar circumstances. It's rather as if they were being asked if they would put up with economic damage to win WW2. These people are living in a fantasy world.
If you're not working, for whatever reason, and supported by the state or by private wealth then why should you care? You will be alright Jack, unlike the majority of people who depend upon jobs, and money purchase pensions to provide for them.

I do sometimes wonder with some of the YouGov polls; they are often a bit left field and if the question was asked in a negative way then then it will provide skewed answers. A case of this was a poll that suggested a large proportion of people in the USA didn't believe the holocaust happened - the result of respondents skim-reading a negative question.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:29
  #8750 (permalink)  
 
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I find that many people I speak to, like myself, have become disengaged from the whole Brexit-Party-Brexit-Party circus.
It's just a matter now of sitting back and accepting whatever sh1t happens.

It was always clear to me at least that with the country and both political parties all split down the middle over Brexit that there could never be a proper resolution.

Two years ago I said on here that there would be no satisfactory exit agreement and that Brexit would lead to a Corbyn government. That was laughed at at the time. The EU would fall over themselves to give us a good deal, and Corbyn would never be a serious contender for government.
Now the general call is that Corbyn is the number one threat, to be avoided at all costs.

Well you've got what you wanted. Enjoy it.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:42
  #8751 (permalink)  
 
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Is Corbyn that much of a threat- except to people with lots of money . If Labour reverse their referendum stance they will be helping not harming the uk economy I am no fan but as far as i know he is at least as good s any Try candidate- he doesnt mask giving money to rich people as beneficial for the country ., nor will he join America in another fake war for freedom and democracy when there is little democracy albeit a lot of freedom in UK and USA at the moment.
So we have a choice between someone whose bot very good-JC and someone who represents a party which has no mandate to do anything except resign and take the consequences for what they have brought upon us..

An utter shamble for 99% of us and an opportunity for more tax evasion for 1% is all the Tories can deliver butt hen that what Britain was like when it was 'Great' and given their name one can never expect conservatives to look to the future
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:46
  #8752 (permalink)  
 
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This was the proper resolution in 2016.

There is nothing on that form about a deal. It doesn't say 'Remain without a Deal' or 'Leave with a Deal'.

The UK voted to leave: End of story.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:51
  #8753 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
That's good to know. It doesn't encourage me to join the team of election staff though!! Too much like hard work.
Oh I don't know. You get to meet lots of interesting people. If it is your own village you get names to faces. You have some on personal clouds of BO, others dressed in their best clothes, excited teens voting for the first time, some amazingly capable disabled voters, some very voluable who vote for none of the above. OTOH, for the first police commissioner election it was an opportunity to read a book for hours at a time interrupted by "whose turn is it to make the tea?"
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:56
  #8754 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Is Corbyn that much of a threat- except to people with lots of money .
I think the catch is the definition of lots of money. A nice clear target of £70k becomes blurred in the detail with tax consequences reaching down to most people.

In my opinion Labour has actually been better at funding Defence than Tories but I don't think that would apply to Corbyn.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:00
  #8755 (permalink)  
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More questions concerning the way the BBC choose their audiences and questioners.......

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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:02
  #8756 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post


This was the proper resolution in 2016.

There is nothing on that form about a deal. It doesn't say 'Remain without a Deal' or 'Leave with a Deal'.

The UK voted to leave: End of story.
That one is getting a bit tired now, TBH.
We know that the country voted narrowly to leave, and so we will. I'm not disputing that and have never called for another referendum that would be equally divisive and solve nothing.

What has been clear from the start is that just like the population at large, the two main political parties and their influential supporters have been split between Leave and Remain, and so cannot agree on what happens next.

Hence all the parliamentary and legal disputes, while the EU looks on in astonishment and disbelief.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:02
  #8757 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post


This was the proper resolution in 2016.

There is nothing on that form about a deal. It doesn't say 'Remain without a Deal' or 'Leave with a Deal'.

The UK voted to leave: End of story.
I can still remember walking into the voting booth with the slip in my hand, thinking of the line from "Pulp Fiction"

"If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions!"
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:03
  #8758 (permalink)  
 
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Of course as he is gay he would be ignored on JB but here is why Brexit is the most evil thing ever to impact the Eu except possibly the Nazis .

Read/watch it and weep
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 17:25
  #8759 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
That's good to know. It doesn't encourage me to join the team of election staff though!! Too much like hard work.


But unlike the politicians, most of the polling station staff can go home at 22:30 or so, because they choose not to work the count as well (the Returning Officer is an exception, s/he has to do a full day's work, from say 05:30 until perhaps 02:00 for a local, or perhaps 06:00 for a general).
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 17:29
  #8760 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Oh I don't know. You get to meet lots of interesting people. If it is your own village you get names to faces. You have some on personal clouds of BO, others dressed in their best clothes, excited teens voting for the first time, some amazingly capable disabled voters, some very voluable who vote for none of the above. OTOH, for the first police commissioner election it was an opportunity to read a book for hours at a time interrupted by "whose turn is it to make the tea?"
One keen disabled voter arrived by car, but was unable to walk into the polling station, and sent her driver in to negotiate.

Presiding officer came out and asked us tellers if it was OK by is if he took her ballot out for her to fill in in the car. I cannot imagine that this was actually legal, but of course we said yes.
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