Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 9th Jun 2019, 17:57
  #8621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Kelvin,

I don't know where you got that idea from. A likely outcome in a 40/30/20/10 split would be 350/250/50/0 in terms of seats.
Which means, the party who received 40% of the votes has 53,8% (350/650*100) of the seats. Sounds very democratic.
ThorMos is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 18:09
  #8622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,415
Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I don't know where you got that idea from. A likely outcome in a 40/30/20/10 split would be 350/250/50/0 in terms of seats
Sounds about right.

I've seen a party take 2/3 of the seats on a council with thirty-something percent of the vote, so it can in fact get a lot worse than this. For the last little while for example the Tories have had 0 seats on Cambridge City Council, despite receiving lots more than 0% of the votes.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 18:10
  #8623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: back out to Grasse
Posts: 96
Is anyone else of the opinion that if the British media continues to do hatchet jobs on all the major contenders for leaders in government, there won't be any leaders left to run the country.
From where will the next tranche of leadership hopefuls be found?

IG
Imagegear is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 18:18
  #8624 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 58
The problem is that the candidates who are not hatchetable are probably not front runners.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 18:28
  #8625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,415
Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post
From where will the next tranche of leadership hopefuls be found?
From anywhere except
  • Tory #brexshitters
  • Labour #brexshitters
?

That would leave quite a wide field of decent people. None of whom would ever get a mention in the hate rags or on the #Brexshit Broadcasting Corporation, of course, so you may not have heard of them.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 05:39
  #8626 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 918
A new addition to the curriculum.....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...atives-cartoon
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 06:49
  #8627 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 9,924
Very interesting paper. Just not sure how it translates into what policies either Labour or Conservatives should adopt to build a majority.

https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...their-own.html
ORAC is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 10:17
  #8628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,627
From yesterday's pronouncements from the Buffoon-in -Chief (Johnson) relating to raising the point at which the higher tax rate band comes in, and financing of same by National Insurance you an see, without much difficulty that he's playing to the 140,000 or so members of the Tory party electorate most of whom would either benefit from the change in tax, or, as they are of pensionable age, not be effected by the inevitable rise in NHI contributions. Should prove a vote winner for him.

I just hope that the MP's see that he would never get elected in a GE on such policies, even Corbyn would make mincemeat of him when it become obvious it's the hard working plebs who will pick up the bill.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 10:46
  #8629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,889
It’s revealing you had to clarify which “buffoon in chief” you meant -from a multitude on all sides of the political divide. If Corbyn were to get in it’ll certainly be the “hard-working plebs” who will pay the price.
ShotOne is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 10:58
  #8630 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,206
Kelvin D - if you really don't understand the undemocratic nature of FPTP elections, may I refer you to Heath v Wilson as an example?
Cornish Jack is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 11:53
  #8631 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,627
Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
It’s revealing you had to clarify which “buffoon in chief” you meant -from a multitude on all sides of the political divide. If Corbyn were to get in it’ll certainly be the “hard-working plebs” who will pay the price.
The subject of the day is the Tory party leadership, as was evident from the test within my posting.

I am more than aware that Corbyn would likely be a disaster for the proletariat, and would have no intention of voting for his party, under his leadership, as I would also have no intention of voting Tory under Johnson, or any of the right wing hardliners currently in the running for the PM-ship.

I doubt I am the only one, which makes the prospects of the LibDems, and Change UK (if they ever get their act together) pretty good in the next GE.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:56
  #8632 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,415
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
and Change UK (if they ever get their act together) pretty good in the next GE.
Some of the ex-Change UK MPs are supposedly in "secret" talks with our lot. Including Allen, whom I've been inviting to join us for years now.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 15:20
  #8633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 235
I'd invite Heidi, do I really need to form a political party?
k3k3 is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 16:29
  #8634 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 677
Kelvin D - if you really don't understand the undemocratic nature of FPTP elections, may I refer you to Heath v Wilson as an example?
It's not a case of not understanding the nature, democratic or otherwise. It is more a case of "I believe in FPTP". I know it may be unpopular among those who find themselves "also rans". Tough! In any race, competition etc, the person gaining the most votes is declared the winner. It behooves those who gain fewer votes to mutter something along the lines of "Oh well. Next time perhaps" and accept the result in good grace. (Unless your name is Seb Vettel). The other various proposals could, if taken to the extreme, result in a 60 Million member Parliament! That way, everybody gets the representation they want.
While on the topic, I must admit to getting annoyed when reading references to "Two party politics". Where does that ludicrous term come from? In the 2017 General Election, there were at least 9 parties standing (probably more if one includes tha "odd balls" such as Monster Raving Loony Party etc).
KelvinD is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 17:02
  #8635 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
... (probably more if one includes tha "odd balls" such as Monster Raving Loony Party etc).
What is so "odd ball" about the Monster Raving Loony Party? With the way the present Members of the House of Commons have been 'behaving' over the past few months, they all seem rather "odd ball" when compared with the MRLP!!
NoelEvans is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 18:30
  #8636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 58
Their candidate at Peterborough looked like an extra from The Dukes of Hazzard. I must consider voting for them next time around.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2019, 04:53
  #8637 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 9,924
The knives are out in Westminster it would seem - and the assumption that Boris has already won the contest. The battleground, obviously, being Brexit - and who runs the country. Real Yes Prime Minister stuff.....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/n...hrey-pcmnwcmgp

Sir Humphrey has his sights trained on our next PM

..........
There is growing concern in Whitehall that Mr Johnson, the Conservatives’ Lord of Misrule, could soon be in No 10. One senior figure said that Tory MPs would be deeply “irresponsible” to put him on the shortlist, knowing he is the darling of the grassroots and so is likely to get elected. “The number one message from Mark Sedwill will have to be ‘our job is to tell you the things you don’t want to hear’,” says a Whitehall source. “It is about speaking truth to power. That’s going to make the cabinet secretary extremely unpopular.”.......

The optimistic view in Whitehall is that Mr Johnson knows his own limitations. A permanent secretary says: “When he was London mayor he was surrounded by quite sensible people, so we are crossing our fingers that will happen in Downing Street too.” There are already signs, however, that the Tory favourite is preparing to go in the other direction. He has told friends that, if he gets to No 10, his priority will be to take on the Whitehall establishment and shake up the government machine. Over the weekend he pledged to bring in an entirely new Brussels negotiating team, and put ministers rather than civil servants in charge. “It’s shooting ourselves in the foot — typical Boris attitude to replace experts with showmen,” says one insider. “The norms don’t matter to him.”

The Leavers have long blamed what they see as a “Remain plot” in Whitehall for thwarting their Brexit dream. Last September Mr Johnson wrote an article asking “how the British civil service — this purring Rolls Royce — could have come such a cropper”. He has also described the Treasury as the “heart of Remain” and was recorded at a private meeting saying: “Imagine Trump doing Brexit. He’d go in bloody hard . . . There’d be all sorts of breakdowns, all sorts of chaos. Everyone would think he’d gone mad. But actually you might get somewhere.” This is the kind of thing that fills civil servants with dread.

The former foreign secretary has promised to take the UK out of the EU on October 31, with or without a deal, but few in Whitehall believe a no-deal Brexit would be in the national interest. In a devastating analysis for Mrs May, Sir Mark warned that a no-deal Brexit would plunge the country into recession, cause a 10 per cent rise in food prices, hamper the work of the police and security services and lead to the return of direct rule in Northern Ireland.

Whitehall sources insist that he will deliver exactly the same advice to the new prime minister. “The facts are the facts on no-deal. Boris thinks he has some kind of magic that can deliver something nobody else has managed, but it’s almost the opposite. Boris is so disliked that we will be doing well to hang on to what we’ve got.”

Would Mr Johnson go against the advice of his cabinet secretary, who is also the national security adviser, on a question of such critical importance just weeks into his premiership? If he did, what would Sir Mark do? The cabinet secretary has already made clear his displeasure about Conservatives putting party concerns before the national interest by highlighting the partisan nature of some cabinet discussions in his minutes.

There are other potential flashpoints. Friends say Sir Mark, whose role is to liaise between Downing Street and Buckingham Palace, is determined to ensure that the Queen is not dragged into a constitutional crisis by having to decide whether the prime minister should be allowed to suspend parliament if MPs vote against a no-deal Brexit. One explains that “the cabinet secretary’s job is to keep the Queen above politics”. Some in Whitehall fear that Mr Johnson, or another hard Brexiteer leader, could try to oust the head of the civil service, or downgrade his role so that he concentrates only on his national security brief. “We will be watching out for politicisation,” says a senior figure. “It would be a signal of that if they tried to move him and set a dangerous precedent.”

Cabinet appointments will send a crucial message. If, for example, Jacob Rees-Mogg is put in charge of the Treasury, whose officials he has accused of “fiddling the figures” in Brexit forecasts, it would be seen as a declaration of war by Whitehall.......


ORAC is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2019, 05:38
  #8638 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 9,924
Ouch, John Crace in the Grauniad. He rips apart the other candidates, but this is the most savage because if the almost pitying tone.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-off-your-head

”.......Alas, poor Michael, we knew him well. Before the hypocrisy surrounding his drug confessions were exposed, Gove had been considered a contender. The Tory capable of going head to head with the newly reclusive Boris. And everything about his launch event reeked of ambition. No side rooms for him, rather a 28th-floor party venue with a rock’n’roll introductory soundtrack. Queen. Fleetwood Mac. All that was missing were naked dwarves with bowls of coke on their heads.

But when Gove took the stage he looked diminished. A man who knew the game was up. He gave it his best shot, delivering his speech fluently without notes, but his heart wasn’t totally in it. The Tory with the pneumatic face had a slow puncture and was vanishing before our eyes.

It was painful to watch. Mikey went through the familiar spiel. His mission was to unlock people’s potential. Westminster is littered with the corpses of politicians who have made that promise. If it was that easy, someone might have managed it by now. He didn’t quite know what his Brexit plan was, but he was sure something might turn up. If not by 31 October then shortly afterwards. It had sounded so much more convincing when he had rehearsed it in front of the mirror. If only that had been the only thing he had done in front of a mirror........”
ORAC is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2019, 06:13
  #8639 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 918
Meanwhile, and I would point out, much to the dismay of those convinced the Guardian never, ever, publishes anything that is condemnatory of Labour......on the other side so to speak, life became considerably warmer inside for Corbyn than the weather is outside.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ting-as-leader
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2019, 06:26
  #8640 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 9,924
POLITICO:

Today’s watching brief: Playbook strongly recommends you check out these tweets
from former No. 10 aide Nikki da Costa, who suggests Labour is up to something regarding tomorrow’s Opposition Day debate. Multiple sources tell Playbook this is indeed the case — and that it could be some sort of attempt to face down Tory leadership candidates threatening to deliver a no-deal Brexit.

Details are murky — it could be a show of strength, or an attempt at something more binding — and Labour sources are being extremely cagey about what’s going on. But keep a close eye on the vote office — if Labour wants to submit a new motion for tomorrow, it’ll have to do so this afternoon.......
ORAC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.