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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 30th May 2019, 08:17
  #8441 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
She pointed out that long-standing Labour voters have deserted Corbyn in droves. Her main argument was for “blue collar” Tory policies which would attract them. Why is that fantasy?
'Cos those people went to Lib Dems (liberal) and Greens (communist), both of which are much further away from "Tory polices" than Labour (which has been propping up the current Tory government for years now).
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:38
  #8442 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Very much agree, but according to some of the usual suspects and usual sources it seems forcing somebody in pubic office into court to defend something they have said is in itself a grave breech of democracy.....
Was that deliberate?

Who better than Boris to be in such an office
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:55
  #8443 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Was that deliberate?

Who better than Boris to be in such an office
This link is interesting and gives some context to the various payments and rebates, etc - seems we make a NET annual contribution of around £9 billion per annum.

I fully agree that Boris' statements about the £19 billion were misleading (you could say dishonest), but that's what politicians do, they lie. All the time, almost every time they speak. That's why the swamp needs draining, and that's why I've not voted for any of the mainstream parties for at least the last 15 years.

But bringing it back to Brexit, how are Boris' lies any different to those of Carney, Osborne, Cameron and countless other project fear mongers whom assured us that, if we voted Leave, billions would be wiped off our economy, we'd be having an emergency budget, unemployment would be rampant, etc, etc. All lies and BS. Are we going to prosecute these people as well?
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Old 30th May 2019, 09:06
  #8444 (permalink)  
 
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You may be right Gertrude. Which surely makes Ms McVeys wish to change course all the more laudable?

you’re also 100% right to point out Green equates to communist. Which is entirely illogical when Communism has been guilty of the worst environmental catastrophes in human history

Last edited by ShotOne; 30th May 2019 at 10:45.
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Old 30th May 2019, 10:42
  #8445 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post

But bringing it back to Brexit, how are Boris' lies any different to those of Carney, Osborne, Cameron and countless other project fear mongers whom assured us that, if we voted Leave, billions would be wiped off our economy, we'd be having an emergency budget, unemployment would be rampant, etc, etc. All lies and BS. Are we going to prosecute these people as well?
Using your example I think the argument being made is that whilst the likes Carney, Osborne Cameron et.al. were expressing their opinion on what would happen, Boris it's alleged seems to have been making claims about existing EU and NHS funding whilst almost literally in his briefcase he was carrying around information and data that showed his claims were untrue.

Mind you since he also was "carrying around" articles he had written both pro remain and pro Brexit I suppose he could claim to having become confused what he knew to be true and what he knew to be rowlocks...

Last edited by wiggy; 30th May 2019 at 11:13.
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Old 30th May 2019, 10:53
  #8446 (permalink)  
 
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Seems to be a fuss about nothing to me. We all know that all politicians lie and embellish, it's what they do, and what they have always done since time immemorial. Much as I dislike BJ, I doubt he's any worse than any other politician. You only need to work closely with one for a short time to quickly realise that they exist on spin (and isn't spin just another form of misleading people?).
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:30
  #8447 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
This link is interesting and gives some context to the various payments and rebates, etc - seems we make a NET annual contribution of around £9 billion per annum.

I fully agree that Boris' statements about the £19 billion were misleading (you could say dishonest), but that's what politicians do, they lie. All the time, almost every time they speak. That's why the swamp needs draining, and that's why I've not voted for any of the mainstream parties for at least the last 15 years.

But bringing it back to Brexit, how are Boris' lies any different to those of Carney, Osborne, Cameron and countless other project fear mongers whom assured us that, if we voted Leave, billions would be wiped off our economy, we'd be having an emergency budget, unemployment would be rampant, etc, etc. All lies and BS. Are we going to prosecute these people as well?

But this Link (data from 2013) suggests a different story. Not that I am saying I believe that story.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:56
  #8448 (permalink)  
 
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You may be sure that if the result had been to Remain, there would have been at least as many legal objections to the 'facts' presented by the Remain campaign. They simply haven't needed to do so because they won.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:57
  #8449 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Seems to be a fuss about nothing to me. We all know that all politicians lie and embellish, it's what they do, and what they have always done since time immemorial. Much as I dislike BJ, I doubt he's any worse than any other politician. You only need to work closely with one for a short time to quickly realise that they exist on spin (and isn't spin just another form of misleading people?).
Would that be the one you were thinking of when you mentioned "my Minister " by any chance. If so, who was she / he, what Dept and what was your capacity when dealing at this level ?......if non of the previous apply, who was the politician in question and, again, what was your capacity when dealing with she / he ? ........and in both cases, when ?

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Old 30th May 2019, 13:12
  #8450 (permalink)  
 
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Oh for Pete's sake Krystal. Give it a rest.
Have you never spiced up your CV?
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Old 30th May 2019, 13:16
  #8451 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Have you never spiced up your CV?
I've never added things to mine - far too easy to check these days.

I may have left things out
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Old 30th May 2019, 13:24
  #8452 (permalink)  
 
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The £350 million a week is the gross figure. After the rebate and all those farming subsidies etc the net figure is around £161 million a week, which is nearly £8.4 billion a year. The total UK treasury expenditure is currently around £750 billion a year, so the financial incentive to leave the EU is peanuts, relatively speaking. However it made a good rhetorical statement on the side of a bus and certainly swayed many of the hard-of-thinking.
Give it to the NHS? Well, the NHS cut of the total spend is currently approximately £125 billion a year, so even with all that 8.4 extra the budget would only increase by 6.7% and by the time all the staff have had the payrise they've been after for years I suspect the little thats left will make didly squat real difference.
Leaving the EU has always been an ideological argument rather than a financial one (power to the wolves in Westminster or bureaucrats in Brussels) but the people lapped it up.

Last edited by Private jet; 30th May 2019 at 13:42.
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Old 30th May 2019, 15:23
  #8453 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Oh for Pete's sake Krystal. Give it a rest.
Have you never spiced up your CV?
No, never had to, Why should I have done, As GTW says, far too easy to check nowadays and even before that. The aircraft engineering world is very small.

Never had a need to embellish posts either.

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Old 30th May 2019, 16:11
  #8454 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC,

Re Andrew Neil and Airbus.

I'm sure that he DOES want to stay in the UK, after all their wing, undercarriage, fuel system and Hydraulics are all conceived and designed here, along with ALL of their wing manufacture, a good chunk of undercarriage and other systems too, and they source more than 50% of their engines from the UK too, and that would cost a firtune to replicate else where.
But with the current crop of rabid Brexiteers competing for the Tory Party leadership all trying to out hard Brexit each other and play up an exit on WTO rules, just imagine what that would mean to Airbus! They would have to pay tariffs on components crossing in and out of the UK as well as finished products tarfiff on wings, so would be paying that tariff possibly multiple times per wing. THAT would cost a fortune and would not be sustainable. And don't forget that it was as a result of a series of comments from the previous Arbus CEO that Boris said his infamous "F*ck business!" when they were read back to him by a journo.
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Old 30th May 2019, 19:06
  #8455 (permalink)  
 
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I hope our 16 year olds taking their GCSEs are reading this because we older folks are proving you can do anything with figures, if it suits your case,��
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Old 30th May 2019, 19:38
  #8456 (permalink)  
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A window starts to open for Boris, or another, as the EU starts to really worry about an accidental hard exit.....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e...mise-8mv87cs26

EU chief Michel Barnier hints at Brexit backstop compromise

The EU has hinted that “alternative arrangements” could be found to avoid triggering the controversial Irish backstop during the transition period after Brexit. The opening could be an avenue for a future Conservative leader to pursue this autumn without tearing up the draft withdrawal treaty negotiated last year.

In an American interview Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, emphasised that the backstop of a UK-wide customs union to avoid a hard border emerging in Ireland was an insurance policy until technology finds a fix for the problem. “The backstop is insurance, in case we do not find [a] solution,” he told The New York Review of Books. “It could be what we call alternative arrangements: technology, drones, invisible controls. None of these arrangements are operational today. You cannot do it immediately. They must be fully operational. You need technology. You need technical infrastructure to do that. And this takes time.”......

The comments on alternative arrangements, his most positive to date, hint at a compromise to put some sort of time limit on the backstop entering into force until new technologies and infrastructure are created between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic to deal with single-market and customs checks without a hard border.

The EU negotiator, a former French minister of agriculture, said that the development of new technologies for “invisible controls”, including unmanned aerial surveillance by drones, is needed to control the movements of livestock or lorries carrying farm products. EU officials have denounced previous British proposals for such an arrangement as “magical thinking” because they would not be ready in time for Brexit, originally envisaged as having happened two months ago.

Dates to implement a new customs regime could be set using the existing withdrawal treaty, which allows for an extended transition period, with full single-market access and customs union, after Brexit until the end of 2023 — a timeline that British and EU officials believe might be long enough. After the April decision to delay departure various dates will have to be changed in the text of the draft withdrawal treaty, creating a small window to find a new compromise, combined with changes to the “political agreement on the future relationship”, which is part of the deal.......

The hope is that a future Tory leader could sell the deal with beefed-up commitments from the EU, setting deadlines to set up the alternative arrangements so that Britain does not automatically have to enter a customs union via the use of the backstop.

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Old 30th May 2019, 20:59
  #8457 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
The £350 million a week is the gross figure. After the rebate and all those farming subsidies etc the net figure is around £161 million a week, which is nearly £8.4 billion a year. The total UK treasury expenditure is currently around £750 billion a year, so the financial incentive to leave the EU is peanuts, relatively speaking. However it made a good rhetorical statement on the side of a bus and certainly swayed many of the hard-of-thinking.
I would be careful about that hard-of-thinking phrase. Anyone who equates cash going out to grants or subsidies coming in, needs to learn something about the grants systems.
I once met a gentleman employed by the British government, whose job was to persuade people not to apply for certain grants because overall the cost of the grant applications was going to exceed the value of the grants.
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Old 30th May 2019, 22:07
  #8458 (permalink)  
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What has the EU ever done for us?
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Old 31st May 2019, 04:14
  #8459 (permalink)  
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Treeza..." In loving memory "......

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...legacy-cartoon

And another nonentity with visions of glory enters the contest.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48468241

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 31st May 2019 at 04:43.
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Old 31st May 2019, 06:44
  #8460 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
What has the EU ever done for us?
Divided the country?
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