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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 26th May 2019, 16:16
  #8261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
Thanks for that Gertrude. Do you remember how many pages Boris` book had.
It was a not-very-thick paperback. I imagine one could get more paper for the money by other means.
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Old 26th May 2019, 18:35
  #8262 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
The Guardian/Labour believe that everyone should get free houses and more benefits. I am sure if the Brexit Party said the same he would be shouting for them.
And all those Guardian/Labour followers would suddenly all be against the idea. It doesn't matter what some parties/individuals say, some people will never agree with them.
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Old 26th May 2019, 23:54
  #8263 (permalink)  
 
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Labour slaughtered by Lib Dems because of their support for #brexit (as expected).

Labour response is "oh dear, we lost votes because we weren't #brexshitty enough, we'll have to become more #brexshitty" (as expected).

Brexit aside, I'd be saying "bring it on, please feel free to hand us Cambridge City Council on a plate next May". Better practice my public speaking for when I'm mayor.
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Old 27th May 2019, 00:10
  #8264 (permalink)  
 
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Calm down. That isn't quite right is it. Doesn't accord with the facts. Now take a deep breath and give it another go.
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Old 27th May 2019, 01:29
  #8265 (permalink)  
 
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"Actually, you know looking at the figures we're doing better than the Brexit party" the well known saying spouted by one and all other candidates interviewed after the MEP election results as they got their arses handed to them on a plate.
There were a few that smelt the coffee, one was a conservative that said they had been well and truly bent over and........ Anne Widdecombe was brilliant in her reply while being interviewed.

Last edited by NutLoose; 27th May 2019 at 08:05.
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:13
  #8266 (permalink)  
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Sales of Horlicks must have soared last night with many of you glued to the box waiting for the not entirely unpredictable result.....that and it's a BH today as well.

There was a little beacon of light however.....alas,

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...on-count-early
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:18
  #8267 (permalink)  
 
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Not me: sick of hearing about it. Mind you, the free and easy way people have chosen to vote tactically shows how little Meps really matter. As a political entity the EU is sh#t. Can we just have the good bits please ?
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:40
  #8268 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at the results so far, it looks as if the popular vote is still broadly in favour of Brexit (hard to be definitive, though). With Labour and Conservative we can't be sure one way or the other, as neither party seems to strongly support either Brexit of Remain, but we do know that the Lib Dems, the Green Party and Plaid Cymru support Remain, and the Brexit party obviously support Brexit. As of now, out of 64 seats declared so far, it seems that 28 support Brexit and 23 support Remain, with 13 being the Labour and Conservative "can't be sure one way or the other" seats.

I'll admit to be a bit surprised, as I genuinely expected to see the Remain lobby do better, given that Farage is a nutter.
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:43
  #8269 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Not me: sick of hearing about it. Mind you, the free and easy way people have chosen to vote tactically shows how little Meps really matter. As a political entity the EU is sh#t. Can we just have the good bits please ?
Good bits?
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:46
  #8270 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Not me: sick of hearing about it. Mind you, the free and easy way people have chosen to vote tactically shows......
If by "free and easy" you mean exercising their brains and thinking before voting, rather than perpetually casting their vote simply on the basis of the colour of a rosette then I'm all for it..I'd say it's the sign of a healthy democracy.


...shows how little Meps really matter. As a political entity the EU is sh#t.
So why did Nigel find the funding to run a campaign to get "his" MEPs elected if they matter so little?

In a way it has been a funny few weeks: it's as if a portion of the UK electorate have suddenly opened their eyes and just discovered these things call European elections....and that despite the falsehoods put about by some over the years there is after all there is a democratic process underpinning the political side of the Brussels system....

I bet Nigel and a few others won't be quite as free and easy with the use of the "unelected" word for a while...

Can we just have the good bits please ?
No, that's called cakeism and it is the attitude that has got Westminster and UK politics into the state it is right now.
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:52
  #8271 (permalink)  
 
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I think that your analysis is incorrect. Remain won. Counting up the potential votes for and against it seems to be roughly 54/46 - a 6% swing against Leave. Of course it's tricky to apportion the Tory/Labour vote, but logically, given that you have a choice of a true Brexit party, if you are a Leaver why not vote for them? It makes no sense to stay with your party. Obviously some would have done, the fragrant Mark Francois that fat owl of the remove was one.

The fact remains that of the much vaunted 17.4 million two out of three of them didn't care sufficiently to walk a few hundred metres last Thursday to confirm their continued support for the project.
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:57
  #8272 (permalink)  
 
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Did anybody else notice the furious reaction of Tice when Alistair Campbell said "You got together e Roubles to fund the campaign". He claimed it was a joke...many a true word!
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:57
  #8273 (permalink)  
 
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You have espoused my party's manifesto in a nutshell. Politics is all about superficial debate to fuel the question time and HIGNFY entertainments. Democracy is all well and good until you find that inexplicably some unintelligent people choose not to agree with you. My comment that as a body politic the EU is sh*t was my imperfect translation from Linear A taken from a clay tablet I found in Elam. The rest of the script was obscure, some ramblings about ' Mazda'. This was a bit of a relevation to me as I didn't think they had light bulbs back then. Nevermind, it's still no go the merry-go-round.
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Old 27th May 2019, 08:57
  #8274 (permalink)  
 
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The Brexit voters in the North East should be included in the Darwin thread.
When London can no longer afford to subsidise them there will be no point in having another Jarrow March.
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Old 27th May 2019, 09:15
  #8275 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I think that your analysis is incorrect. Remain won. Counting up the potential votes for and against it seems to be roughly 54/46 - a 6% swing against Leave. Of course it's tricky to apportion the Tory/Labour vote
I don't think you can apportion the Tory/Labour Vote ATM as it stands it looks like the Brexit Party got the largest number of seats, ( hence the claims of other parties having their "backsides handed to them", etc, which is a statement that has some validity), but their single party vote is outnumbered by combined votes cast for parties who have "remain" as a explicit policy - we're looking at Lib Dem, Greens, et.al.

That leaves the sticky issue of what do Labour/Tories do next and where will they sit in the next few months.. Labour on one side of the fence, at last.. and the Tories?
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Old 27th May 2019, 09:16
  #8276 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I think that your analysis is incorrect. Remain won. Counting up the potential votes for and against it seems to be roughly 54/46 - a 6% swing against Leave. Of course it's tricky to apportion the Tory/Labour vote, but logically, given that you have a choice of a true Brexit party, if you are a Leaver why not vote for them? It makes no sense to stay with your party. Obviously some would have done, the fragrant Mark Francois that fat owl of the remove was one.

The fact remains that of the much vaunted 17.4 million two out of three of them didn't care sufficiently to walk a few hundred metres last Thursday to confirm their continued support for the project.
Not sure how you reach that conclusion, TBH.

Looking at the MEPs so far:

The Brexit Party have 28, ~ 43.75% of the total so far - clearly all pro-Brexit.

The Lib Dems have 15, ~23.44% of the total so far - clearly all pro-Remain.

The Labour Party have 10, ~15.63% of the total so far - no way of knowing if they are pro-Brexit or pro-Remain, but party policy seems to still support Brexit.

The Green Party have 7, ~10.94% of the total so far - clearly all pro-Remain.

The Conservative and Unionist Party have 3, ~4.69% - no way of knowing if they are pro-Brexit or pro-Remain, but as the governing party they are supporting Brexit.

Plaid Cymru have 1, ~1.56% of the total so far - clearly pro-Remain

Hard to see how the above figures show a convincing majority that support Remain, I think.
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Old 27th May 2019, 09:17
  #8277 (permalink)  
 
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Why are politicians of all colours still banging on about having a "Peoples' vote" or another referendum etc. What did the EU elections do, beyond electing MEPs to the EU? It was a "Peoples' vote" if ever I saw one. At least I only saw people voting, no farm animals or trees, buses etc.
And now, while writing this, the BBC is telling me that John McDonnell is tweeting that one of the lessons Labour must learn is that the EU results show us we need another bloody vote. Should we arrange to have repetitive "Peoples' votes", say for example every 3rd Tuesday?
I don't know if anybody else was spoiling their evening yesterday by listening to the BBC coverage of the results as they came in. While listening to the announcement from Haverford West, a BBC commentator broke in to tell us "The results are being announced now in Welsh. We will get them in English later". He was too stupid to listen to what was actually happening; the returning officer was announcing the results, first in Welsh (it is the language of the nation after all!), followed immediately by an English version. Unfortunately, it was almost impossible to hear the results because of the prat wittering on about the English version to follow. Ironically, the prat doing the wittering was doing it with an Ulster accent!
Shortly after this, the BBC coverage of the results was rudely interrupted by Ed Davey storming in to his interview, frothing at the mouth and berating the BBC because the BBC was giving out the results and failing to point out that Remain parties were actually winning when the total votes were counted up. Actually, they weren't. At the time, results were going more or less along the lines pointed out by VP above.
Getting fed up with this, I thought it would be informative if I chose to follow the European results. The BBC web site had a page dedicated to this so I started watching it. And what did I get?
"Spain Results": See Twitter
"Czech Results": See Twitter
"Results from Belgium": See Twitter.
I have, in the past, had a row with the BBC over this, explaining that I am not a user of Twitter so how do I get to the see the news? Presumably, a journalist enters the text of the news into a Twitter feed and then we are told to go and read that. How about if a BBC journalist entered the same input to a BBC web page and then offered a link to a Twitter feed for those that want it?
Re K&C's input re the fate of Yaxley-Lemon (or whatever Robinson's name is), that was the one piece of news that really cheered me up this morning. Now he has lost his deposit, how about him now losing his liberty? Isn't he supposed to be in prison?
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Old 27th May 2019, 09:26
  #8278 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
The fact remains that of the much vaunted 17.4 million two out of three of them didn't care sufficiently to walk a few hundred metres last Thursday to confirm their continued support for the project.
It's hardly a massive turnout all round is it?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...08cb61833767a4

To claim a victory for remain on this basis and push for another referendum still has an incredibly high risk of failure.
The best way is to just revoke article 50, a "confirmation referendum" could deliver the No Deal that many oppose.
The BBC has it at 35% each way - Remain vs Leave, (although I can't find the link now) which is still pretty much the same it's always been.
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Old 27th May 2019, 09:29
  #8279 (permalink)  
 
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Seems to be a flock of angels dancing on pinheads this morning. We know the referendum was a close thing. If we have another vote and it's reversed it will still be a close call. Will everything then be ok and we can put it aside and get back to the path of righteousness? The vote could confirm the wish to leave, then what? I think we better leave, in one form or another, so if Labour got its act together and espoused a soft brexit ( customs union) they might get somewhere. Pinning the red flag on a second vote looks like a bit of, erm, red flag to me.
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Old 27th May 2019, 09:30
  #8280 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Did anybody else notice the furious reaction of Tice when Alistair Campbell said "You got together e Roubles to fund the campaign". He claimed it was a joke...many a true word!
The mater of fact way in which Campbell said it and the reaction was priceless, but you know it begs a question. Where did the Brexit Party get so much money from so quickly. Assuming it wasn't buried inside Nigel Farage's mattress it must have come from somewhere else, and in shed loads.

Compare the resources that Change UK, that were formed over a similar timescale, and the amount they had to spend on quality leaflets and roadside signs (again made properly not by amateurs) - just the two most visible signs of a campaign, with the Brexit Party. I just don't buy it that it's through small donations from supporters. Whether it be from the likes of Tim Martin, Bamford - or indeed other more shady donors, I feel sure that months after the elections, wrongdoing will be proven, by which time, just as in the referendum, it will be too late to change the results. The sudden wealth of the Brexit party is comparable to someone living in a run down area of town suddenly acquiring a Rolls Royce. It stinks.
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