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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 9th May 2019, 06:15
  #7821 (permalink)  
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Central London really is becoming a European enclave within a foreign country......

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...f-uk-j2xv9r858

Up to 75% of babies are born to migrant mothers in parts of UK

About three quarters of babies were born to mothers from overseas in 2017 in some parts of England, according to official statistics published yesterday.

Almost 30 per cent of births in the country were to women born outside Britain, with even higher figures in parts of London and other big cities. About 58 per cent of births in the capital were to foreign-born women, rising to a record 76 per cent in the borough of Brent. In the boroughs of Ealing, Westminster, Harrow and Newham more than 70 per cent of births were to foreign-born women.......

Women born outside Britain had 189,000 babies in England in 2017, 20 per cent more than in 2007, the ONS said. The main change had been in the number of births to women from other EU countries. The number of births to mothers from outside the bloc remained fairly stable. Over the same period births to UK-born mothers fell by 8 per cent, from 498,000 to 458,000.....

The increase in the number of births to foreign-born mothers has largely been driven by a rise in the number of women of child-bearing age in the population, rather than a rise in the number of children they are having.......




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Old 9th May 2019, 07:36
  #7822 (permalink)  
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Politico:

”....Playbook hears parliament’s mice problem has now gotten so bad that gangs of guerrilla journalists have been taking matters into their own hands and laying their own rudimentary traps around the premises. There are now dead bodies everywhere. “We are having mouse wars,” one hack confirms via text. “Rival newspapers are drawing 3-3 at the moment.”

But who is actually involved? “No names. The first rule of Mouse Club is — there is no Mouse Club.”.......
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:25
  #7823 (permalink)  
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ORAC, outside Britain, yes, overseas, yes, but how many were born to ethnic Europeans from the EU?
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:28
  #7824 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
. . .the UK didn't 'have' to do any such thing. In theory, the government could have just stamped a foot and said "Shan't".
i think you struck a nerve.

We had an exit date, the EU had our exit date, at that date why did they not implement Brexit?
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:49
  #7825 (permalink)  
 
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​​​​​​​Not wishing to be racialist, but last time I was in London the bulk of people didn't look very European.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:55
  #7826 (permalink)  
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PN, unknown as it wasn’t included in the report which was focussed on education and forecast of required schools and teachers. Another interesting snippet....

”An official report said here Wednesday that about a third of all secondary school staff in London are from overseas, revealing a new sign that migration plays a vital role in British education.

The British Office for National Statistics (ONS) said that 32 percent of secondary school teachers in the British capital were born outside Britain and a quarter of primary teachers were also from overseas. When support workers, assistants, managers and others were taken into account, the overall foreign contingent of London schools amounted to 31 percent of the total staff numbers, the report said.”.......


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Old 9th May 2019, 09:00
  #7827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Interesting feature on Newsnight about the situation in the North. Their analysis of why many have voted Brexit seems to chime with what I have seen. It seems to be people who feel that they have missed out, been done down by the system.

The question really is this: if we were to have a No Deal Brexit as supported by Boris and JRM, would the lot of these people improve? It seems to me counter intuitive to imagine that this might occur. Those Old Etonian supporters of Brexit are hardly likely to legislate to help those at the bottom of the pile. Much more likely that they would legislate by labour laws to exploit still further this cohort, more zero hours contracts, fewer protections for workers.

The whole crux of the problem as I see it is that the entire economic system is tilted against those without education and any other capability apart from the sale of their labour. This combined with the hoovering up of property for profit by a different section of the population has ensured that those at the bottom can never hope to climb the ladder. What we are now seeing with the rise of populism that is driving Brexit is the first, mild reaction of the hard done by.

It seems to me that Beexit will exacerbate this. Once it happens those who see themselves as downtrodden will realise that things have not improved and maybe got worse. What happens then?
Wow - has it really taken you nearly 3 years to come to this glaring realisation EM?

The only bit you missed out was the negative impacts of uncontrolled immigration, in particular of low skilled labour, that has further eroded the ability of those same people to "get on in life". This latter point is important, as ending FMoP should remain a key tenant of ANY Brexit deal.

Frankly, nobody can predict the socio-economic impacts of EU exit (and anybody who pretends they can is a liar), but about 17.4M are willing to give it a go!
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Old 9th May 2019, 09:38
  #7828 (permalink)  
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ORAC, whilst that article is no doubt accurate it really is meaningless. Obviously, as Asians look physically different from Europeans, we build up an impression of increasing numbers of Asian immigrants. We have far less visual evidence of EU immigration but stopping unrestricted immigration is seen as essential.

Yet another nonsense by our 'elders and betters' when we have always had the means if controlling non-EU immigration and also EU immigrants that are not workers.

Locally, from the electoral roll, we have EU immigrants but not many and very few voted at the election. That suggests to me that they have no affinity with UK and are only here on a temporary basis. In contrast, 50% of the ethnic Indian Asians, one out of two, voted, but none of the Chinese voted.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:00
  #7829 (permalink)  
 
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The whole crux of the problem as I see it is that the entire economic system is tilted against those without education and any other capability apart from the sale of their labour. This combined with the hoovering up of property for profit by a different section of the population has ensured that those at the bottom can never hope to climb the ladder. What we are now seeing with the rise of populism that is driving Brexit is the first, mild reaction of the hard done by.
The entire crux of the problem is that over decades the concentration of economic growth and infrastructure development, that in itself assists in driving economic growth has been in principally in the London and surrounding areas, to the detriment of the rest of the UK. No wonder therefore that people in "the north" feel cheated, and the message peddled by the likes of Farage and BoJo (both well heeled London based politicians) that the EU and migration is entirely to blame for their plight, rather than the very long term policies of successive UK governments as regards how the UK and it's economy is run, are both very appealing and easily believed.

I dread to think how those portions of the population will react when it dawns upon them that inside, or outside the EU, unfettered or restricted immigration, nothing changes for them.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:43
  #7830 (permalink)  
 
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That realisation, evident to a lot of people on this thread and the previous one, is somehow part of project fear and if anyone wants to change anything it is undemocratic.

(I think I might just go and join the ER member on his farm,,,see climate change thread.)
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:48
  #7831 (permalink)  
 
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I dread to think how those portions of the population will react when it dawns upon them that inside, or outside the EU, unfettered or restricted immigration, nothing changes for them.
Maybe they consider that a change of this magnitude could improve their lot and are willing to give it a go, they may also consider that it cannot make it any worse for them so what have they got to lose.

This whole exercise has highlighted to the Westminster crowd that they have got to change their outlook on the population outside their protected elite bubble, and if that succeeds and makes things better throughout the UK then it would prove to be a worthwhile outcome.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:00
  #7832 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post

This whole exercise has highlighted to the Westminster crowd that they have got to change their outlook on the population outside their protected elite bubble, and if that succeeds and makes things better throughout the UK then it would prove to be a worthwhile outcome.
Let's move the bubble and Parliament to the north of the country and see if the elite follows it.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:21
  #7833 (permalink)  
 
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This whole exercise has highlighted to the Westminster crowd that they have got to change their outlook on the population outside their protected elite bubble, and if that succeeds and makes things better throughout the UK then it would prove to be a worthwhile outcome.
But has it, or will it? Civil Servants and MPs are a metropolitan lot, and just can't see beyond the M25, or not far beyond it.

If as a result of Brexit we have a proper federal system where the English regions have real power over stuff that really matters, and Westminster just does what matters nationally (international relations, trade etc) then I will be a convert. I'm yet to see any evidence that the Londoncentric world begins to understand or really appreciate how day to day life is outside their own, prosperous southeast.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:53
  #7834 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
Let's move the bubble and Parliament to the north of the country and see if the elite follows it.
And the opportunity is presenting itself at the moment to do just that, however they are blowing another huge budget on https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48199355
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:04
  #7835 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC, whilst that article is no doubt accurate it really is meaningless. Obviously, as Asians look physically different from Europeans, we build up an impression of increasing numbers of Asian immigrants. We have far less visual evidence of EU immigration but stopping unrestricted immigration is seen as essential.

Yet another nonsense by our 'elders and betters' when we have always had the means if controlling non-EU immigration and also EU immigrants that are not workers.

Locally, from the electoral roll, we have EU immigrants but not many and very few voted at the election. That suggests to me that they have no affinity with UK and are only here on a temporary basis. In contrast, 50% of the ethnic Indian Asians, one out of two, voted, but none of the Chinese voted.
The problem I see is all these new migrants to Germany etc that were welcomed in with open arms would when granted EU citizenship be able to travel and live in the UK and you have no control over that, nor do you have the faintest idea who and where a lot of them originated from.
Also as you mentioned asian immigration, not that I am against it, but it has often made me ponder over the subject of Indian / asian arranged Marriages, I could understand the principal behind it when there was for want of better words, a small UK asian population, therefore arranged marriages was in a way essential.
But in this day and age where the UK has a thriving asian populace, surely it is time to carry out arranged marriages from within this Country if they desire it, as opposed to importiing in brides or grooms, it would certainly stop the forced marriages that some families foist upon their offspring.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:07
  #7836 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
And the opportunity is presenting itself at the moment to do just that, however they are blowing another huge budget on https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48199355
You can get one of these up north at a great price and would be more than adequate. Just needs a bit of paint.

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Old 9th May 2019, 12:16
  #7837 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
You can get one of these up north at a great price and would be more than adequate. Just needs a bit of paint.

I was thinking along the lines of a couple of 1960s tower blocks, especially ones where the lifts don't work; should trim the waistlines of parliament.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:54
  #7838 (permalink)  
 
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I see we are back to the will of the people again, funnily enough it never matters on any other subject.

And more to the point it was 3 years ago and a lot has happened since then-for those who voted on the take back control pretext as we have no position in the world to control and no exporting country is going to make any changes just for the UK market anymore because we are just too small.

Also take back control and give it an organisation, Tory party labour party and parliament who have proven themselves to be completely inept and untrustworthy and only interested in their own party. You couldn't sensibly hand a teenagers responsibilities to the UK Government at the moment so thats a myth exploded.

And now we are back to lets have another completely undemocratic vote for the PM because while you cannot change your mind we can change ours any time we like. And as for Hammond, lets get Brxit done and then the PM steps down-dont these people have the faintest sense of responsibility -she did the deal she has to live with it . Or if we have some right wing looney PM who wants to change things the Eu could well end up saying -well just leave but forget about your passports being honoured without visas or your trucks or cars or anything short of a US civil war type approach to 'you can't leave'. it would all of them a little bit and for a short time but it would hurt us far more and no one is going to be happy about Brexit when their holiday price has gone up by 200 quid ahead.

and as for new PM< who is even remotely credible

Jeremy *unt, well he did a fantastic job witht he NHS
Boris-liar cheat fabricator of stories for news papers fool buffoon incompetent-the man who sold London to the Chinese the list is endless
Liam Fox, the most useless minister ever , three years and no trade deals worth a penny
Dominic Raab - 'I didnt know the channel crossing was important to our trade'-well since you are Czech so you would know little about the sea i suppose. Also being pro Breict when 755 of your constituency voted remain might be a handicap
Sajid Javid , never done much wrong but never done much at all
david davis, another Liam fox , keeps citing our Constitution unaware that we dont have one
Michael Gove-my MP, bit of a wet week and doesnt appeal to women voters as such, tends to shift positions a lot , far to close to people like Murdoch and daily mail and generally does what they tell him
Amber Rudd, Ledsom, Mordaunt-all women and therefore handicapped by TMs performance; bit of a shame for them but not the country as two very weak and one the opposite , can you guess who
Rees Mogg , well its 2019 not 1919 or even 18 19. Sticks to his guns but they are cannon in an age of missiles and the last thing the country needs is another old Etonian who would like to bring back the Poor laws, Child labour , the Press Gang and all those other symbols of Great Britain.

Nigel Farage, 100-1 outsider but the fact that so many in the country like him is the clearest evidence of our nation l ignorance and poor education standards that could ever be used. Also extreme hypocrite as has foreign name, foreign wife, foreign children and a German passport for the asking


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Old 9th May 2019, 13:24
  #7839 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Amber Rudd, Ledsom, Mordaunt-all women and therefore handicapped by TMs performance; bit of a shame for them but not the country as two very weak and one the opposite , can you guess who
Rees Mogg , well its 2019 not 1919 or even 18 19. Sticks to his guns but they are cannon in an age of missiles and the last thing the country needs is another old Etonian who would like to bring back the Poor laws, Child labour , the Press Gang and all those other symbols of Great Britain.

Nigel Farage, 100-1 outsider but the fact that so many in the country like him is the clearest evidence of our nation l ignorance and poor education standards that could ever be used. Also extreme hypocrite as has foreign name, foreign wife, foreign children and a German passport for the asking
Wow!

What have you got against females? Just because T May has made a right mess, why should that preclude other females? It didn't preclude males after Blair, Major, Brown or Cameron. In many ways they made a mess of their time in charge.

Could you tell us what 'Poor Laws' and 'Child Labour' that Rees-Mogg has stated he is bringing back? You must have a reference to this happening, or you wouldn't have written it.

As for Mr Farage, so what if he has a wife from the EU. There may be many on here as well. Are you saying that if you are from the UK you must marry someone from the UK?
I don't think there is any need to bring someone's children into a discussion(rant) about UK politics.
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Old 9th May 2019, 18:12
  #7840 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Locally, from the electoral roll, we have EU immigrants but not many and very few voted at the election. That suggests to me that they have no affinity with UK and are only here on a temporary basis.
Sitting at polling stations last Thursday I was talking to large numbers of EU27 citizens, including quite a few who hadn't voted here before and didn't know the system. (Though I admit to not having checked the percentage in the database.)
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