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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 5th May 2019, 13:19
  #7741 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
why not have a second referendum and see what that produce , but they wont and there is only one reason for that which is they know they would lose .
With the Westminster shower trying everything they can to avoid leaving and the remain side are so confident that a second referendum would result in a win for remain, then you would think the Westminster lot would get one sorted as soon as possible to break the deadlock they have got themselves in.

But again what question and response would be fair, although we are told everyone is apparently so much more knowledgeable now than the first time about what the possible outcomes are and would now know what they are voting for, surely the same question could be asked again, that would be fair and give a definitive answer, unless remain won by as small a margin as leave did last time then we would have to have another one to make sure.
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Old 5th May 2019, 13:27
  #7742 (permalink)  
 
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This term "champagne socialist" intrigues me. Does it mean that, if you have wealth then you can't also have a social conscience? Conversely, does it mean that if you have wealth, then you must support right wing parties?
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Old 5th May 2019, 13:36
  #7743 (permalink)  
 
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Champagne socialists want everyone to be equally wealthy.
Ordinary socialists want everyone to be equally poor.

Take your pick.
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Old 5th May 2019, 13:39
  #7744 (permalink)  
 
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GtW, do try to calm down, you'll give yourself a hernia if you keep getting your knickers in such a twist!

I voted Lib-Dem for the first time in my life at the local elections for a few reasons:
1. The Lib-Dem councillors are good people and effective
2. I'm fed up with the arrogance of the local Conservative councillors and I am glad that they have lost control of the local council
3. I wanted to contribute to the statement: "We are dissatisfied with the service Westminster is giving us and, short of a General Election, this is the only way I can make my voice heard"
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Old 5th May 2019, 13:40
  #7745 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
Champagne socialists want everyone to be equally wealthy.
Ordinary socialists want everyone to be equally poor.

Take your pick.
I suppose in the first quarter of the 21st century they'd probably prefer to be referred to as "Craft Gin Socialists"!
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Old 5th May 2019, 19:30
  #7746 (permalink)  
 
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Well I don't think we need to concern ourselves too much with the much vaunted TM/JC deal/stitch up . Mc Donnell has just scuppered it.
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Old 5th May 2019, 22:31
  #7747 (permalink)  
 
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May isnt a quick learner is she. Plots a course if action then when it is stymied she blinks, shakes her head and carries on. If reality doesn't suit, reality is wrong and must learn. So with her exclusive to the press she wants to make out that the talks are her initiative under her control and, if successful, will be her success. Just like calling the TV crews and telling the world it is all parliament's fault: she is right, they are wrong.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:17
  #7748 (permalink)  
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We should be thankful the pair didn't choose aviation as a career and end up being crewed together.....and making an approach involving decision height. ....


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...corbyn-cartoon

Here's crapgames thoughtful advice.....


Last edited by Krystal n chips; 6th May 2019 at 06:44.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:07
  #7749 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
May isnt a quick learner is she. Plots a course if action then when it is stymied she blinks, shakes her head and carries on. If reality doesn't suit, reality is wrong and must learn.
Quite.

Her Conservative pre election leaflet is a classic. For give me for quoting (aviation content as in pink pigs)

1. Take back control . . .

2. Leave fisheries and CAP . . .

3. Protects jobs and security . . .

It's all other's fault - 98% of Labour, 100% of Lib Dem, Green, and others, and 11% Cons. The good guys are the 5 Labour and 4 Ind who voted with her.

Now correct me if I am wrong, isn't that her position for the 3 years? Isn't that the position rejected by the EU for 3 years?

And she hopes to get JC on side in two weeks so we don't need an election. J***s C****t does she really believe that?

No matter which side you chose it will be a stitch up.

No agreement.
An election.
No agreement.
Can kicked down road.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:26
  #7750 (permalink)  
 
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Theresa May has reportedly entered secret discussions over the possibility of staging a second Brexit referendum.

The Prime Minister was said to have carried out 'scenario planning' last week to prepare for a potential vote in Parliament on holding a second referendum.

According to the Telegraph, Mrs May and her aides discussed giving the electorate a three-way vote on whether to take Brexit with a deal, leave without a deal, or Remain.
If the majority of votes are for either, take Brexit with a deal, leave without a deal, neither option being acceptable to the Westminster shower, what would they do then, as they will be no further forward than they are today, however they would have definitely run out of options to kick the can down the road after that likely result.

I doubt they could get a referendum sorted in time to keep the UK from the necessity of holding the MEP elections, which I think the desperation from May to agree a deal with Labour in the forlorn hope they can get that passed by Westminster and the EU in time to stop the UK holding MEP elections, demonstrates that they want to avoid that further embarrassment for the political set.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:50
  #7751 (permalink)  
 
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That we will not be allowed to properly leave the EU is a view I have held for a little over 2 years now.
I did not however believe we would be where we are now, I thought we would end up with May's deal (which I always viewed as BRINO), the fact that she is now looking to give way even further is mind boggling, our leader and indeed whole political estanblishment is a corrupt shambles full of swindlers, liars and titled fools
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:07
  #7752 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hyperdark View Post
That we will not be allowed to properly leave the EU is a view I have held for a little over 2 years now.
By “properly” do mean as in a no deal Brexit?
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:15
  #7753 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


By “properly” do mean as in a no deal Brexit?
wiggy, given where we are today, would that have been so bad?

As I said above, her EU manifesto appears completely unchanged from the points already rejected by the EU.
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:43
  #7754 (permalink)  
 
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Forgive me for being slow this morning after a late night, but can someone explain to me why the party leaders are having discussions about compromising on a deal, when there is already a deal on the table in Brussels and it is the only one the EU will accept?
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:59
  #7755 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Forgive me for being slow this morning after a late night, but can someone explain to me why the party leaders are having discussions about compromising on a deal, when there is already a deal on the table in Brussels and it is the only one the EU will accept?
Because if any “deal” that TM and JC may agree on is ‘softer’ than the present deal on the table with the EU, I would imagine the EU would re-open the present deal in the blink of an eye? Do you not think?

Edited to add, I think JC is probably quite happy with the current deal on offer, what he wants to stitch up are the negotiations over our future relationship with the EU after the transition period.
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Old 6th May 2019, 11:15
  #7756 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
wiggy, given where we are today, would that have been so bad?
That depends where "we" are located..

I was more interested in establishing who Hyperdark thinks isn't allowing the UK to exit the EU "properly" and what "properly" means.
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Old 6th May 2019, 11:38
  #7757 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Forgive me for being slow this morning after a late night, but can someone explain to me why the party leaders are having discussions about compromising on a deal, when there is already a deal on the table in Brussels and it is the only one the EU will accept?
Unless I'm mistaken, the discussions largely surround the future shape of the UK / EU relationship, rather than the exit agreement that has already been agreed, and as you say, the EU will not re-open.

Because the future relationship document is not legally binding, Corbyn and his team really have to be careful, as they could so easily sign up to something with TM that would immediately overturned by the next leader shoe-horned into No.10. I don't see how anything watertight can be agreed so the chances of a binding agreement between Labour and Conservatives is quite unilkely, especially as the Tory absolutely will not agree to any sort of binding binary referendum choice - the deal, or remain. This hairbrained idea of a 3 question referendum that the papers are floating today is totally unrealistic, unless it is run on a 1st and 2nd preference system, largely beyond the wit of your average voter.

Rory Stewart said on Sky News this weekend that if a new Tory leader moved further towards a harder Brexit, then the party could easily lose 4m votes at the next general election Funny looking bloke, Stewart, and also sounds like your typical upper class twit that tends populate the Conservative party, but he talks sense, rather than dogma. I've liked him since he took on the job of Prisons Minister, as tends to talk straight and answer questions. Really hope he gets a decent shot at the Tory leadership election when it comes along.

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Old 6th May 2019, 11:38
  #7758 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post


Because if any “deal” that TM and JC may agree on is ‘softer’ than the present deal on the table with the EU, I would imagine the EU would re-open the present deal in the blink of an eye? Do you not think?
No, I do not think the EU would agree anything in the blink of an eye.
They might agree to something 'softer' if they got a binding treaty that that the rabid Brexiteers would go away and not keep demanding new terms or new referenda. Would that happen?

Edit: Perhaps the EU would be happy with a revision to Art. 50?

Last edited by Sallyann1234; 6th May 2019 at 12:04.
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Old 6th May 2019, 11:57
  #7759 (permalink)  
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ATNotts, 'the average voter' seemed confused with a double binary choice. Two Lab, two Con, two votes.

Can someone refresh me on the EU election? In our region we have 8 groups with 5 candidates and a single independent. Do we pick any 5 from 41 or we pick one group?

With the exception of the Brexit and UKIP groups, do the others have any incentive to leave the EU? No, thought not.
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Old 6th May 2019, 12:04
  #7760 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
ATNotts, 'the average voter' seemed confused with a double binary choice. Two Lab, two Con, two votes.

Can someone refresh me on the EU election? In our region we have 8 groups with 5 candidates and a single independent. Do we pick any 5 from 41 or we pick one group?

With the exception of the Brexit and UKIP groups, do the others have any incentive to leave the EU? No, thought not.
Certainly can...apart from the fact it's more than a shade inconvenient for all parties, it's also afforded Tommy "Gawd bless 'is racist 'eart " tellin it wot like it is ! " an opportunity to enter mainstream politics...thankfully, as recent events in Warrington and Wythenshawe demonstrate, this entry may not be as successful as he / it imagined .

Talking of which, how are your own aspirations towards governance progressing ?......
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