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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 29th Apr 2019, 06:54
  #7621 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Yes we do! - look at his past statements! - it's not as if anyone else in his "party" will have a say in formulating policy!!!

Scrapping the NHS is the most often quoted of his policies.
In theory Gertie, however, there may well be a not so small problem in this respect in the form of the less than delightful Anne who has now joined this personal vanity party.

Anne, I'm sure everybody will recall was never given to offering mere sound bites on any subject under the sun, but more sound medieval banquets and there's only one gob permitted in Nige's party.....we shouldn't have to wait too long therefore before her dulcet tones start to grace our screens again.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-party-cartoon


On the subject of rancid gobs therefore, here's Nige reverting to his tried and tested strategy of talking about a topic dear to his racist heart and thus far being factually correct.....although any precedent concerning the Divine Saviour and facts is unlikely to ever emerge anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-racial-lines

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 29th Apr 2019 at 07:05.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 08:21
  #7622 (permalink)  
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 08:35
  #7623 (permalink)  
 
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KnC

Iím not saying Iím a fan of Nigel Farage, far from it in fact, but why exactly is he a racist? Is it just because he has an opposite viewpoint to your own? Is it because all Brexiteers are racist (in the minds of Guardian readers)?

Why does calling NF a racist achieve anything?

I think arguments fall down when people resort to such names when you have little actual proof.

If you'd called him a d1ckhead I wouldnít be disagreeing with you, but you canít resort to racism allegations just because you donít like him. Donít forget that, despite his many faults, he has actually publically stated he has distanced himself from UKIP because of racist tendencies in the party.

BV
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 08:50
  #7624 (permalink)  
 
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Who is being polled? In my many years on this planet no one has ever asked me about voting intentions. I must be frightening them away or am I being prejudged by where I live, where I work or some other pointless metric.

Even in my own district council election I have only two candidates to chose from, both mainstream parties. Maybe I just answered my own question.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 08:52
  #7625 (permalink)  
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ORAC, and the poll question was . . .?
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 08:55
  #7626 (permalink)  
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Grayfly, we have 4, 2 of each. No real choice is there?

One pair look like smarmy gits and the other husband and wife who together would 'earn' buckets full from the council cow.

Not voting isn't an option so we voted for the two least unacceptable; some choice.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 09:26
  #7627 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
What is the point of such surveys at the moment?
In the present febrile atmosphere people will change their views in response to whatever is in the news each day.

The EU election is an expensive irrelevance that will cause further exasperation on both sides of the Channel.

Local elections are only a poor guide to voting in a GE.

I see no reason to change my original prediction of an unsatisfactory Brexit followed by a Labour government.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 13:19
  #7628 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Iím not saying Iím a fan of Nigel Farage, far from it in fact, but why exactly is he a racist? Is it just because he has an opposite viewpoint to your own? Is it because all Brexiteers are racist (in the minds of Guardian readers)?

How about this?
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 14:33
  #7629 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by under_exposed View Post
The only thing I can see in that article, I didn't read it all, is that he answered the question posed. He didn't say anything that many people will not have thought. Take breast feeding,

ďI think that given that some people feel very embarrassed by it, it isnít too difficult to a baby in a way that's not openly indentations,Ē Mr Farage said. He added: "Or perhaps sit in the corner, or whatever it might beĒ.

He was called a racist for saying he wouldn't want a group of Romanian men moving in next door. The questioner said Romanian; who would want any group of men, young by implication, moving in next door?

​​​​​We are too used to politicians not answering the question or people being PC telling you only what you want to hear. When Farage says what many think he is pilloried.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 15:00
  #7630 (permalink)  
 
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Let he who is without sin...

An interesting article.

Iím not about to act in the defense of NF but PN makes the same point I was going to. It is very easy (especially for a newspaper from one end of the spectrum) to quote individuals and paint them in a certain way.

Remember, Corbyn is an anti-Semitic terrorist sympathiser.

Or what about this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...221.html%3famp

Even the renowned spiritualist and all round good guy the Dalai Lama is a racist. Allegedly.

If youíd said Nick Griffin or Tommy Robinson were racists I wouldnít argue but they cannot be considered mainstream politicians, thankfully.

You see, we could label people all day long but it doesnít advance our argument at all.

I think it is better to make your point without relying on name calling. Also remember, just because you disagree with someone it doesnít make them wrong.

We all have an opinion but itís worth remembering it is just that. An opinion. Very few of us know concrete facts.

BV

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Old 30th Apr 2019, 08:48
  #7631 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Iím not saying Iím a fan of Nigel Farage, far from it in fact, but why exactly is he a racist? Is it just because he has an opposite viewpoint to your own? Is it because all Brexiteers are racist (in the minds of Guardian readers)?

Why does calling NF a racist achieve anything?

I think arguments fall down when people resort to such names when you have little actual proof.

If you'd called him a d1ckhead I wouldnít be disagreeing with you, but you canít resort to racism allegations just because you donít like him. Donít forget that, despite his many faults, he has actually publically stated he has distanced himself from UKIP because of racist tendencies in the party.

BV
I don't believe for one moment Nigel Farage is racist, what he is is populist - and if he perceives that striking a more racist tone presses the right buttons with a significant group of people, that is how he will play it.

He also certainly isn't a "dick head", quite the opposite, he is a very clever politician, and a master manipulator of people, much as Trump, Urban and Le Penne are today, and they have a deal in common with characters from the mid 20th century such as Hitler and Mussolini in their ability to latch on the the prejudices and fears of particular, often disparate groups within society. I suppose that you could say Corbyn has similar qualities, but without, frankly, the media skills, or the intelligence.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 08:56
  #7632 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I don't believe for one moment Nigel Farage is racist, what he is is populist - and if he perceives that striking a more racist tone presses the right buttons with a significant group of people, that is how he will play it.

He also certainly isn't a "dick head", quite the opposite, he is a very clever politician, and a master manipulator of people, much as Trump, Urban and Le Penne are today, and they have a deal in common with characters from the mid 20th century such as Hitler and Mussolini in their ability to latch on the the prejudices and fears of particular, often disparate groups within society. I suppose that you could say Corbyn has similar qualities, but without, frankly, the media skills, or the intelligence.
A reasonable summary though you could add other examples such as BoJo, JFK.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 11:00
  #7633 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
A reasonable summary though you could add other examples such as BoJo, JFK.
And indeed Obama, though he was not perhaps quite so cynical - he never really tried to play to both ends of the political spectrum in the way that the likes of Trump or BoJo - I'm afraid I'm just too young to remember how JFK handled himself and his message(s) - I'll bow to your greater experience on that one.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 11:29
  #7634 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I don't believe for one moment Nigel Farage is racist, what he is is populist - and if he perceives that striking a more racist tone presses the right buttons with a significant group of people, that is how he will play it.

He also certainly isn't a "dick head", quite the opposite, he is a very clever politician, and a master manipulator of people, much as Trump, Urban and Le Penne are today, and they have a deal in common with characters from the mid 20th century such as Hitler and Mussolini in their ability to latch on the the prejudices and fears of particular, often disparate groups within society. I suppose that you could say Corbyn has similar qualities, but without, frankly, the media skills, or the intelligence.
I happen to share the view of many others that he is a racist . What he is however, unlike the previously mentioned incarnations from dung heaps, is, adroit enough to not be as openly so less the well crafted image becomes irrevocably tarnished. Lets remember the sources from which UKIP gestated and the faux outrage when former BNP members were "discovered " as having joined the party. Likewise his distancing himself from the party now openly abusing our political system with extreme right wing ideologists and street thugs.

For BV....it's not just Guardian readers who opine as to his covert racism, there are numerous articles available from a variety of sources containing his comments that also support this view.

Here's another to mull over ....

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...t-ukip-what-he

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Old 30th Apr 2019, 12:22
  #7635 (permalink)  
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 17:07
  #7636 (permalink)  
 
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Krystalís faux outrage at covert racism -if thatís what it is- might hold more weight if he wasnít defending the overt anti-semitism and other nasties of Corbynís ď kinder gentler politicsĒ
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 17:35
  #7637 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Krystalís faux outrage at covert racism -if thatís what it is- might hold more weight if he wasnít defending the overt anti-semitism and other nasties of Corbynís ď kinder gentler politicsĒ
When it comes to Farage, and UKIP, I think it's fair to say I've never been reticent to express my less than humble view that both the individual and the party are equally detestable ....in case you missed these sentiments previously...... hence there is no " faux outrage" on my part .

However, I would be intrigued if you can show me where I have, ostensibly, defended the underlined above because I have posted that I have equal detestation for those who actively believe in anti Semitism.

Of course, it you wish to talk about the nasties of Gov't how about starting with the DWP and the brutal and draconian implementation of policies that adversely affect millions of innocent people who are dependent on social aid just to survive.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 18:23
  #7638 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed, youíve been banging on about Farage (who I donít like either) non-stop. But not a syllable from you condemning the multiple well-documented instances of anti-semitism within Corbynís Labour.

On on top of which, in the face of the (admittedly lamentable) failure of the Tories to implement a Brexit agreement, Labour continue their ďall options on the tableĒ fence-sitting act.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 21:31
  #7639 (permalink)  
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“Brutal and draconian” - less severe than those in the proposed Labour budget of Darling after the crash, and far superior to those that ensued in most of Europe. But rhetoric rarely meets facts.



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Old 1st May 2019, 07:59
  #7640 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Agreed, you’ve been banging on about Farage (who I don’t like either) non-stop. But not a syllable from you condemning the multiple well-documented instances of anti-semitism within Corbyn’s Labour.

On on top of which, in the face of the (admittedly lamentable) failure of the Tories to implement a Brexit agreement, Labour continue their “all options on the table” fence-sitting act.

Ah, how to assuage the angst now overflowing from your pious soul ?

Do you not think there may be a reason, or two, that I have, according to yourself that is, not joined in the bandwagon of condemnation for the allegations against Corbyn, bearing in mind that although I am a socialist I have been critical of him in the past. You see, if these allegations are true, did it not strike you as strange, and maybe just a shade more than "pure coincidence " that they intensified at the time he was rising to prominence at the last GE ?....and, if the allegations are as entrenched as is alleged, how come they have never received the prominence in the public domain they justifiably deserve ..until now. Corbyn is, after all, a well established politician is he not ?

ORAC......nice graph, very pretty....slight problem ...how about transmogrifying those figures into people.........and the hardship they face on a daily basis. Hardship induced by the moral cowardice, the bullies and autocratic nature of those working for the DWP only too happy to impose misery on people to support Gov't policy.


The debacles of UC are well documented ......and carefully buried from public scrutiny as far as possible by the deluge know as Brexit. However, the range of the DWP extends further than UC as I will, briefly, explain.

The lady in my life has health issues which, cumulatively, entitle her to a range of benefits. When we moved in together, apart from the DWP making a totally false allegation as to our status.........they are so arrogant they chose to disregard an affidavit from me which negated this allegation, .......they suddenly stopped some of her benefits...miracle !! it would seem.... her health was restored with my arrival........which clearly it wasn't. The appeals are a war of attrition on their part...keep delaying and hopefully the claimants will either die or give up. Ours, compared to many cases is relatively small, but the side effect on said lady has been damaging. Now imagine what it must be like for people unable to defend themselves , who have little or no support network around them and who are intimidated by the bullies at the DWP........now try and tell me the policies aren't cruel and draconian........and the product of Tory social engineering.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...poverty-expert

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...gh-court-judge

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 1st May 2019 at 08:10.
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