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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 28th Apr 2019, 10:19
  #7601 (permalink)  
 
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“Sidelined by the feckless offspring of the wealthy..,”. Does that even mean anything? Are you the same Labour class-warrior who was on Radio 2 last week pronouncing that “public schools produced paedophiles and thieves”?
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 10:37
  #7602 (permalink)  
 
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Prior to the last Scottish Referendum I remember being approached numerous times by a Saltire emblazoned volunteers who would ask me how I was going to vote. In my reply I always said 'Yes' which brought about a lovely smile on their faces.

It always gave me a nice warm feeling.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 11:23
  #7603 (permalink)  
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Too many bright young things are being sidelined by feckless offspring of the wealthy.

Really? So all the lads in London and elsewhere, sidelining bright young things by sticking enormous knives into them are the feckless offspring of the wealthy? In that case, bring back hanging!
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 12:43
  #7604 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
I remember being approached numerous times by a Saltire emblazoned volunteers who would ask me how I was going to vote.
Sounds like an inefficient use of resource by a campaign that didn't know what it was doing.

Unless you have so much resource that you can afford to waste some - which the "yes" campaign didn't, as witness the fact that they lost - you don't ask the same person "numerous" times. You might ask them up to three times, to get some swing analysis, if you think you can do anything useful with the results, but I've rarely seen a campaign (outside a prominent marginal parliamentary by-election) that can afford to do even that much voter ID.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 14:34
  #7605 (permalink)  
d88
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It is understandable, and entirely reasonable, that the population of Scotland would want to be governed by their own parliament rather than by the disgraceful bunch of self-serving incompetents in London.

If they did choose to leave they would of course find that independence wasn't as wonderful as they had imagined.

Just like Brexit.
If Brexit does indeed happen, then Independence will be the only option for the Scot's. It may not be wonderful, but it will be a darn sight better than watching the far right take over England.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 15:02
  #7606 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by d88 View Post
it will be a darn sight better than watching the far right take over England.
I presume you mean in the short term?

Extremist parties do not usually win British elections. Swaying the centre ground is more successful. Should left and right desert the centre ground then you might get a third party in control, but I doubt it.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 15:12
  #7607 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by d88 View Post
If Brexit does indeed happen, then Independence will be the only option for the Scot's. It may not be wonderful, but it will be a darn sight better than watching the far right take over England.
I don't think a far right government in England is a prerequisite for Scottish independence. They have been taught to hate any London government.

The unexpected majority for Brexit was in large part due to people voting for something, anything to shake things up after they perceived that successive governments had failed them. "It can't be worse than this" .

Sref2 will go exactly the same way, but with the additional grievance of having been dragged out of the EU.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 15:31
  #7608 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I presume you mean in the short term?

Extremist parties do not usually win British elections. Swaying the centre ground is more successful. Should left and right desert the centre ground then you might get a third party in control, but I doubt it.
Traditionally that would be the case, however over the last few years the hard left have taken over the Labour Party and the far right are making their bid to take over the Conservatives. That combined with Farage & UKIP still hogging the media spotlight , then it's fair to say British politics is the most polarised it has been in modern times

Last edited by d88; 28th Apr 2019 at 16:51.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 15:39
  #7609 (permalink)  
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d88, so, will the Brexit Party position itself as centrist as Leavers are not of left or right but a complete mixture.

The other problem with the new parties is their position. UKIP was really a one trick pony. Carsewell has it right in today's Sunday Telegraph, they must look to the future in any Parliamentary election.

I think they got a good name and a charismatic leader, now the Brexit Party needs to look beyond Brexit.

I think Change UK has neither a good name not charismatic leader.

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Old 28th Apr 2019, 16:02
  #7610 (permalink)  
d88
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I don't think a far right government in England is a prerequisite for Scottish independence. They have been taught to hate any London government.

The unexpected majority for Brexit was in large part due to people voting for something, anything to shake things up after they perceived that successive governments had failed them. "It can't be worse than this" .

Sref2 will go exactly the same way, but with the additional grievance of having been dragged out of the EU.
I disagree with the notion "They have been taught to hate any London government", in the 60's Scot's voted for Conservative government's and in the 70's, 90's & 00's they voted for Labour government's. Part of the reason why Scot's are increasingly turning their back on the UK is the lies that were spun to them during the Independence referendum. They were told the 'SNP would drag Scotland out of the EU, and only being part of the UK would ensure EU membership' . In reality what has happened is that the far right in England are taking Scotland out of the EU (not one Scottish constituency voted to leave). It's not a grievance, it's grounds for divorce.

As for the reasons for Brexit , there may be many reasons why people in England voted to leave, but one thing is certain, the far right came out the strongest and until the more centrist parties address this, they will continue to grow in strength.

Last edited by d88; 28th Apr 2019 at 16:55.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 16:48
  #7611 (permalink)  
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Pontius Navigator;10458031]d88, so, will the Brexit Party position itself as centrist as Leavers are not of left or right but a complete mixture.

The other problem with the new parties is their position. UKIP was really a one trick pony. Carsewell has it right in today's Sunday Telegraph, they must look to the future in any Parliamentary election.

I think they got a good name and a charismatic leader, now the Brexit Party needs to look beyond Brexit.

I think Change UK has neither a good name not charismatic leader.
Apart from Brexit, no one knows what Farage and his Brexit Party stand for outwith Brexit , so still early days. However, Farage should have a huge health warning attached to anything he stands for, as it's who's lurking in the background funding him, what's their motives ? That's the question I'd be asking.

UKIP are now riddled not with just the far right but far right extremist's. When you have the convicted thug Tommy Robinson playing centre stage, it's surely a sign for any sensible person to avoid. The likes of the BNP and Britain First have not went away,

Change UK - admirable motives but formed as a mere knee jerk reaction to their old political parties hard stance on Brexit. There's no coherent ideology for what they stand for. Likely to go the same way as the SDP.

If you're being polite, you'd say British politics is an ' interesting' place at the moment. iId go further, I'd say it's in a dangerous place. IMO of course.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 17:44
  #7612 (permalink)  
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Under no circumstances do the Marxists want there not to be a Brexit. Rebecca Long Bailey, who is assuming greater power within her party the she thought imaginable a year ago, will steer her team towards a deal with the hapless Conservatives that will ensure that a Brexit of some sort passes through the Commons before the May euro elections but after next week's UK local elections.
Farage's party will blow away in the wind, UKIP will be dealt with by Momentum storm troopers if necessary and everything will all be forgotten in the euphoric self indulgence of national grief when the death of either Phillip or Elizabeth and consequent parades and dressage exercises drive all from the front pages.
Believe me, there are some very clever minds in one or two of the back halls of the UK government and I am fortunate to be privy to the one or the two, as reference to some of my previous political and financial predictions over the years will testify.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 19:17
  #7613 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by d88 View Post
Apart from Brexit, no one knows what Farage and his Brexit Party stand for outwith Brexit
Yes we do! - look at his past statements! - it's not as if anyone else in his "party" will have a say in formulating policy!!!

Scrapping the NHS is the most often quoted of his policies.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 19:44
  #7614 (permalink)  
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Not a bad policy that if after demolishment comes top quality world class construction, contracted out to companies in the Far East, Australasia and the US that have done that sort of work before. There's not a mob in Britain that could handle the regeneration of the NHS.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 20:13
  #7615 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Not a bad policy that if after demolishment comes top quality world class construction
I've not seen any such proposal, I think the "plan" is that we are each "free" to make our own arrangements.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 22:30
  #7616 (permalink)  
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There Is much to be said for compulsory employer insurance schemes backed up by a good national system for those in need. Of course there also needs to be an employee contribution to the insurance side of any such programme and the incentive for that comes in tax deduction for insurance premiums paid.
You will never ever get that level of contributive health system passed through a UK parliament and no UK treasury would ever agree to it if only for the simple enough reason that income tax rates would, in theory, have to reduce to compensate for the fact that the government was now only picking up the tab for complex care for the needy.
Besides and to their shame, if the 650 odd members of parliament don't think you can organise a computer system to monitor truck trade across the Irish borders do you think they could even conceive that such a rather more complex plan might be possible?
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 22:34
  #7617 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Yes we do! - look at his past statements! - it's not as if anyone else in his "party" will have a say in formulating policy!!!

Scrapping the NHS is the most often quoted of his policies.
As I said, it's who's behind Farage , who's pulling his strings ? That will determine his 'policy'
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 22:47
  #7618 (permalink)  
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Pulling the strings?
Well, it certainly isn't the Russians nor the Chinese. The Australians aren't interested and the Yanks don't care. Perhaps it's Narendra Modi in India, now in the midst of its 17th Lok Sabha elections, looking for a suitable if slightly dodgy investment opportunity once the voting is all over to use for capital venture purposes. Have you noticed the increase in telecoms traffic from the sub continent recently. They're taking over all BT and other network computer lines with massive shutdowns. I have to admit though that I was out there tiger shooting just before Christmas and didn't notice any conversations such as there use to be in the old days about moving 'home'.
What an economic irony to be taken over by the previous colonial vassal state. The Germans shroud be getting worried about Namibia!
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 23:05
  #7619 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
There Is much to be said for compulsory employer insurance schemes
Which may be fine for those people who have stable full time permanent jobs (and, one assumes, never change jobs once they've first acquired a health condition), but what about everybody else? The "everybody is a member of a union working for a member of the CBI in a job for life, apart of course from the little woman at home" model of employment is long dead. You'd end up with more exceptions than "normal" cases.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 23:53
  #7620 (permalink)  
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I fully support voluntary euthanasia and actively campaign for government grants in aid of early medical retirement for those that wish it upon approval from two independent medical sources.

There are so many good systems in the rest of the world and Britain is so united in its admiration for its own rather financially arcane and self defeating system that, with good government and a very firm hand on the plunger, much could be achieved. But, like that runway at LHR, edited for aviation content, it will never happen in the UK in any one man's life time.
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