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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 23rd Apr 2019, 22:28
  #7541 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
not to mention the horrific CaMKOx "arc".
At present it's something along the lines of "one end doesn't want the road and the other end doesn't want the railway" (dunno if it matters that I can't remember which is which).

The fastest rail option, which is likely to be the least popular locally as it doesn't serve all that many people in villages, is a seriously disappointing eighty minutes. Add a fairly optimistic 20 minutes at each end to get where you want to be by bike, bus or taxi and you get to two hours. Which is all it takes to drive at the moment, let alone if the road is tarted up! So whilst we would very much like a decent railway there seems little point in spending vast amounts of money building one that can't even compete with the current road.

Not that local opinion will matter, because we all know how this will go:
  • Central government will impose the plan, regardless of local objections.
  • Some later government will drop the rail enhancements as impractical, and will drop the road enhancements as "sorry, can't afford it this week".
  • The house builders will shrug, hang on to the land, and go and develop somewhere else instead where there is going to be some infrastructure. And then go bust because they overpaid for the land in the first place.

The clever trick is to be one of the landowners who sells to the land-banking developers (before they go bust, obvs). But if you don't already own the land you're probably too late.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 07:12
  #7542 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Not really. We are talking of their inconsequential EU Election. Elected in May, take their seats in July, come home in November and join the dole, or resume your seat in the House of Lords.
Perhaps come home in November, perhaps still be in Strasbourg in November 2020! A friend of mind, who is fairly close to the centre of power has told me only at the weekend he believes Brexit is now less likely to happen as the momentum has gone from it. Also all in Westminster are sh1t scared that if it does, it will likely lead to the loss of Scotland and NI from the union. He failed to suggest how Brexit might might not happen however!
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 07:24
  #7543 (permalink)  
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ATNotts, and if they are still there in 2023 will that make any difference? Apart from buckets of baksheesh what do MEPs actually achieve? As one once said, the project is going on one direction and out can't be changed. UK had the weight with Germany to restrain some of the wilder ideas but not enough too make changes.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 07:53
  #7544 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
ATNotts, and if they are still there in 2023 will that make any difference? Apart from buckets of baksheesh what do MEPs actually achieve? As one once said, the project is going on one direction and out can't be changed. UK had the weight with Germany to restrain some of the wilder ideas but not enough too make changes.
The EU parliament wields a lot of power, insofar as a deal of what the Commission proposes can only get through with the the approval of said parliament. This is a fundamental misunderstanding in UK since media coverage of the EU has been, until recently (post the referendum) so poor.

I'm not sure which "wilder ideas" come out of the EU - things like the "Eurosausage" are pure fiction (Yes Minister!) other things, such as straight cucumbers and the definition of chocolate have more to do with industry pressure leading to establishment of rules than to daft career politicians coming up with stupid ideas; and to be honest, in the wilder ideas department UK national and local politicians are no less guilty than European ones!
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 08:06
  #7545 (permalink)  
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48034732

Ann Widdecombe: Former Tory MP to stand for Brexit Party

Former Conservative MP Ann Widdecombe has announced she is set to return to politics - for the Brexit Party.

Ms Widdecombe, 71, said she would still vote Conservative in the upcoming local elections but would stand as a candidate for Nigel Farage's new party in the European elections. She said she wanted to "fire a very loud warning shot across the bows" of the established parties. The former shadow home secretary has been retired since 2010.

Writing in the Daily Express , Ms Widdecombe said the "last thing" she wanted was "a full-on return to the political fray" but she felt it necessary to re-affirm "the supremacy of the will of the people". She added: "What the Remain campaign failed to achieve by fear must not be achieved by fatigue."....


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Old 24th Apr 2019, 08:07
  #7546 (permalink)  
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I'm not sure which "wilder ideas" come out of the EU - things like the "Eurosausage" are pure fiction (Yes Minister!) other things, such as straight cucumbers and the definition of chocolate have more to do with industry pressure leading to establishment of rules than to daft career politicians coming up with stupid ideas
https://order-order.com/2019/04/23/v...ie-burger-ban/
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 08:16
  #7547 (permalink)  
 
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Good old Guido!!

And shame on the Guardian, who's article is linked. This is a (nutty - no apology from me for the pun!) proposal (not decree as the Guardian puts it) originating from the Commission, no doubt egged (non vegan of course!) by the meat industry, and a proposal that will need approval from the European Parliament. Without approval it will fall.

Personally I want my food described correctly. A steak is necessarily meat based, and I don't want to eat this vegan muck. I want my rights to know what I'm eating protected, and as such I am 100% behind this vital proposal, that is clearly much more important to the future of Europe than many other burning issues (tongue, in case the humourless are reading, firmly in cheek!).
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 08:53
  #7548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Good old Guido!!

And shame on the Guardian, who's article is linked. This is a (nutty - no apology from me for the pun!) proposal (not decree as the Guardian puts it) originating from the Commission, no doubt egged (non vegan of course!) by the meat industry, and a proposal that will need approval from the European Parliament. Without approval it will fall.

Personally I want my food described correctly. A steak is necessarily meat based, and I don't want to eat this vegan muck. I want my rights to know what I'm eating protected, and as such I am 100% behind this vital proposal, that is clearly much more important to the future of Europe than many other burning issues (tongue, in case the humourless are reading, firmly in cheek!).
How would you describe a tuna steak?
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 09:08
  #7549 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
How would you describe a tuna steak?
Some years ago I was at a conference, sharing a dinner table with a French visitor as we each practised the other's language. She ordered the tuna steak and was surprised to receive the fish as she had assumed that 'tuna' was just a method of preparing a steak. "Mais...!"
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 09:16
  #7550 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
How would you describe a tuna steak?
Fishy - very fishy . . .
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 09:53
  #7551 (permalink)  
 
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Taking nothing away from the' bon mot' I would suggest a tuna steak is not very fish at all , compared to many other fish.

howebevr I see we have kow towed to China over using Huawei equipment in our national 5G network. A decision no doubt taken in the knowledge that no Huawei no trade deal.

Its saddening to see those who claim they want to make Britain great again have instead made us the beggars of the global trade world, and this is just the start , next step will be signing the NHS and food standards over to Mr D Trump serial bankrupt and liar in the name of the same cause . Another couple of years and we will truly be Little Britain.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 10:02
  #7552 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Taking nothing away from the' bon mot' I would suggest a tuna steak is not very fish at all , compared to many other fish.

howebevr I see we have kow towed to China over using Huawei equipment in our national 5G network. A decision no doubt taken in the knowledge that no Huawei no trade deal.

Its saddening to see those who claim they want to make Britain great again have instead made us the beggars of the global trade world, and this is just the start , next step will be signing the NHS and food standards over to Mr D Trump serial bankrupt and liar in the name of the same cause . Another couple of years and we will truly be Little Britain.
The 5G infrastructure will either be done through Huawei or in all probability another foreign (strategic) corporation since the UK abdicated it's responsibilities in these sorts of areas years ago. So likely as not if the Chinese aren't spying on us the Americans, Germans, French or whoever else will be hiding software we'd rather they didn't into our systems.

I agree with you regarding trade offs, and we're going to be more and more dependent upon them if we're going to make our own trade deals as "little old UK" will almost always be the junior partner in negotiations with any really important, relevant parties. Wait for India to demand free movement of it's citizens in return for a trade deal. So much for "taking back control"!
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 10:07
  #7553 (permalink)  
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Another reason TM has to go. After the fiasco of the 2017 election where she ignored the Cabinet, she promised she would never act except through majority decision again. Ignoring Brexit, this case proves she has gone down the same dictatorial path as before.

The Times:

“The issue was discussed yesterday afternoon at meeting of the National Security Council (NSC). The prime minister is now understood to be leaning towards an option that means Huawai will be banned or blocked from all of the “core” parts of the 5G network and access to “non-core” aspects will be restricted........

The Telegraph reported that Sajid Javid, the home secretary; Jeremy Hunt, the foreign secretary; Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary; Liam Fox the trade secretary, and Penny Mordaunt, the aid secretary, raised concerns during the meeting. One minister said: “This is bonkers. How can 80 per cent of the NSC have been against yet she gives the go ahead?”

Other sources stressed that no decision had been taken. One said there were “ongoing discussions” adding “don’t think any final decisions were reached today”.......

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Old 24th Apr 2019, 10:28
  #7554 (permalink)  
 
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Another reason TM has to go. After the fiasco of the 2017 election where she ignored the Cabinet, she promised she would never act except through majority decision again. Ignoring Brexit, this case proves she has gone down the same dictatorial path as before.
She's clearly a poor Prime Minister, but the hand she has been dealt, which following the 2017 election debacle only exacerbated the situation hasn't helped her cause. However I really cannot see how by rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic anything is going to be achieved. I despaired when I heard a proponent of a change at the top on the BBC Radio 4 PM programme last evening say, when asked by Evan Davis, what would be achieved by such a change, that a new PM could reopen EU negotiations and get get rid of or change the NI backstop. I have always assumed that Tory members were more intelligent than their Labour counterparts, but honestly, what did she not understand. The exit agreement is closed, and the back stop stays. The future relationship is open to further negotiation, when, and if parliament tell the EU what it wants - not what it doesn't. The current parliament can't manage that so, if there is to be a change that has to be a a new parliament - a new PM, apart from being a bit undemocratic, will be able to achieve nothing. Were that person to be a hard line Brexiteer they'd achieve even less than May has, since the current house simply wouldn't play ball.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 10:48
  #7555 (permalink)  
 
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The issue with the Huawei contract is not that the Chinese may exercise control over the network, rather that the UK government may not have complete control. Current mobile systems can be monitored and selectively disabled by GCHQ whenever necessary. The problem is that the Hiawei systems and encryption standards are robust enough to resist such monitoring and selective degradation of services.

The ability to selectively disrupt mobile services becomes important when dealing with possible terrorist related activities such as remote triggering of IEDs or hostile drone flying activity over sensitive areas, for example. Secure encryption would also degrade the capabilities of GCHQ and other organisations tasked with monitoring communications passing through and within the UK.

Then there is the consideration that mobile data networks are essential to the running of many businesses. Bank transactions and all manner of other business rely on accurate time data synchronised through mobile networks in order to verify the legitimacy of their transactions. A prolonged disruption to mobile networks would be more economically damaging to the UK than any number of Brexits. Imagine being forced to rely on paper invoices for every transaction and reverting to cash or cheque payments only. There simply aren't enough coins and bank notes in circulation to cope.

There are legitimate reasons to be concerned about having significant portions of our communications networks being sourced from outside the UK, but that is a risk that needs to be taken if we are to remain close to the leading edge of technology. UK developed systems could be exclusively used but at much higher cost and possibly with incompatibility linking to other external networks.

Perhaps the nearest comparison might be Microsoft Office, the suite of word processor, spreadsheet and database programs that have a virtual monopoly across the world. Alternatives exist, but no right thinking office manager would bother specifying anything else despite the known security loopholes.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 11:22
  #7556 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The 5G infrastructure will either be done through Huawei or in all probability another foreign (strategic) corporation since the UK abdicated it's responsibilities in these sorts of areas years ago. !
Yes. We had Marconi, Plessey, Decca and half a dozen other electronics companies who could be leading the world now. Most of them lost due to mismanagement or unwise investments.

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Old 24th Apr 2019, 11:44
  #7557 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Yes. We had Marconi, Plessey, Decca and half a dozen other electronics companies who could be leading the world now. Most of them lost due to mismanagement or unwise investments.
Or being flogged off to the highest (usually foreign bidder) without a shred of resistance or concern from the government of the day. Would France, Germany, the USA or China allow that to happen? Well perhaps one of them might, the others almost certainly wouldn't.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 11:49
  #7558 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Yes. We had Marconi, Plessey, Decca and half a dozen other electronics companies who could be leading the world now. Most of them lost due to mismanagement or unwise investments.
I recall some years ago that BT was putting out tenders for some large telecoms infrastructure project and Marconi tendered but made it clear that if they weren’t awarded the contract they would most likely disappear from the market altogether - in other words the BT contract would be a lifeline to them. BT awarded the contract to Huawei and the rest is history. Sometimes there has to be other considerations other than price? National interest?

Bit of info here if you’re interested.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/aug/09/5
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 11:58
  #7559 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post


I recall some years ago that BT was putting out tenders for some large telecoms infrastructure project and Marconi tendered but made it clear that if they weren’t awarded the contract they would most likely disappear from the market altogether - in other words the BT contract would be a lifeline to them. BT awarded the contract to Huawei and the rest is history. Sometimes there has to be other considerations other than price? National interest?

Bit of info here if you’re interested.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/aug/09/5
Most countries put national interest ahead of price; the UK appears to do the opposite, hence you have situations where Carrilion go belly up, and other government outsourcing companies get into financial difficulties of simply don't deliver on service - I'm presently suffering at the hands of one - Cadent who are the successor in some roundabout way to National Grid, and they in turn have subcontracted work to another outsourcing company Triio. Neither can apparent organise an inebriation party in a brewery.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 13:00
  #7560 (permalink)  
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ATNotts, my point was it was easier to stop nutty schemes than to change
policy.

And bent bananas was true. St Lucia lost its major market when that happened though I see Waitrose now sell bananas from the Caribbean and Africa and label the countries each bunch comes from. Though when I searched for St Lucian they had sold out.
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