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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 22nd Mar 2019, 16:59
  #6661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Liverpool
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24 hours ago when I posted the petition link, it had 800,000 signatures. It now has nearly 3.4m. I don't think the guaranteed debate in parliament is necessary nor do I think it would ever be a motion. However, should it get to say, 8.5m and still be rising then I think on the basis of statistics alone, it might start getting some serious political interest. An opposing petition, 'Brexit re article 50: it must not be suspended/stopped under any circumstances' stopped at around 117k a few months back but circumstance were different then.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 17:40
  #6662 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Speaking entirely for myself (consistent brexiteer) I would not ever subscribe to any online petition of the nature now being discussed. I rely on the referendum result to deliver the exit. That is not to eliminate the possibilty of others to try to subsequently reverse the process, in a legal manner.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 17:44
  #6663 (permalink)  
 
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BBC now reporting that the Petition has been hijacked by bots - one claim that one source only has voted over 33,000 times, and continuing to generate numbers.

Let's open a rival 'No deal exit next week' one and see how the bot war develops - when one exceeds the population of UK, a winner is declared

(This whole business speaks eloquently of the competence of whoever set up an IT system so laughably vulnerable to misuse).
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 17:44
  #6664 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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To be honest I wouldn't give a factual reply to any survey I was asked questions about Brexit.

Those PMI results are worse than I expected. Things might kick in sooner rather than later.

BBC now reporting that the Petition has been hijacked by bots - one claim that one source only has voted over 33,000 times, and continuing to generate numbers.
Well a certain singing PPRuNe member has been missing in action since it started...…. so it might not be a bot.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 17:57
  #6665 (permalink)  
 
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BBC now reporting that the Petition has been hijacked by bots - one claim that one source only has voted over 33,000 times, and continuing to generate numbers.
Well the BBC are certainly reporting this..

Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested that "Russian collusion" was behind the unprecedented traffic towards the Brexit petition.

While Russia is notorious for seeking to meddle in the politics of the west, on this occasion there is a question mark over what its intentions would be, added Prof Woodward.[one of three cyber security experts quoted by the BBC in this piece]

"All the evidence is that Russia was supporting the Leave campaign," he said.

"So why would they suddenly be supporting Remain?"



https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47668946
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:20
  #6666 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Those that say the ‘Brexit must not be stopped’ petition only got 117000 signatures should remember that the Remain favouring BBC neglected to feature that particular petitions existence as major news.

Its funny how the ‘overturn Brexit’ petition garnered so much attention from the liberal media.

Just an observation.

BV
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:23
  #6667 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
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Some one has paid to get it sponsored on facebook as well.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:24
  #6668 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lincoln
Age: 67
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Whatever is happening to the petition is really irrelevant, as soon as it reaches 10,000 the Government will respond and anything over 100,000 it will be considered for debate, even if the real figures are genuinely above 100,000 anything above that will not make the Government any more likely to change the outcome of their decision, which should be what the response to all the others on the same subject have been, it is also quite likely that they will not have the time to discuss it when they are still infighting about the Withdrawal Agreement:

The Government’s policy is not to revoke Article 50. Instead, we continue to work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union, as planned, on March 29th.
I know the dates have changed but the intent to not revoke Article 50 will not change, the remain march tomorrow, even with far greater numbers than the exit march has managed will have the same effect on Westminster, precisely none.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:40
  #6669 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
BBC now reporting that the Petition has been hijacked by bots - one claim that one source only has voted over 33,000 times, and continuing to generate numbers.
.
Except they are explicitly NOT reporting that. Fascinating that you should promulgate a lie and a few posts down, another leaver picks it up at face value.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47668946
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:47
  #6670 (permalink)  
 
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All the evidence is that Russia was supporting the Leave campaign," he said.

"So why would they suddenly be supporting Remain?"
The motive of any foreign country interfering in elections is to sow confusion and damage confidence in the democratic process.
It's self evident how government and parliament have been discredited by Brexit, and any malign influence would be seeking to continue the disruption as long as possible

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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 18:58
  #6671 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
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Many times I've noted that what may look like a conspiracy, especially where government is concerned, is nearly always cock-up. It seems that this may be the case with this petition shenanigans. I've been told that, in an effort to stop the petitions site from crashing (it seems there is a well-organised remain campaign to get signatures, that's being well-funded and promoted widely on social media), it's been adjusted so that reports are created much less frequently, as the report generation process was using resource and contributing to the site going down. However, when the reporting interval was increased, someone forgot to include this in the times on the report data, so way out of date reports were being reported as being up to date. Just sloppy work by whoever it was in the government's IT department/contracted service that tried to find a work around for the site crashing problem.

Have to say that I admire the ability of the remain team to coordinate support in the way they have. They are very much more effective (as they have been from the start) at being able to run a well-coordinated campaign, as this petition shows. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the leave campaign had been as well coordinated, rather than being the complete and utter shambles that it was (and still is).
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:05
  #6672 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Many times I've noted that what may look like a conspiracy, especially where government is concerned, is nearly always cock-up. It seems that this may be the case with this petition shenanigans. I've been told that, in an effort to stop the petitions site from crashing (it seems there is a well-organised remain campaign to get signatures, that's being well-funded and promoted widely on social media), it's been adjusted so that reports are created much less frequently, as the report generation process was using resource and contributing to the site going down. However, when the reporting interval was increased, someone forgot to include this in the times on the report data, so way out of date reports were being reported as being up to date. Just sloppy work by whoever it was in the government's IT department/contracted service that tried to find a work around for the site crashing problem.

Have to say that I admire the ability of the remain team to coordinate support in the way they have. They are very much more effective (as they have been from the start) at being able to run a well-coordinated campaign, as this petition shows. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the leave campaign had been as well coordinated, rather than being the complete and utter shambles that it was (and still is).
You've created a conspiracy in your head there & convinced yourself it's real the space of two paragraphs. Has it occurred to you that the reason it's at 3.5m signatures is because 3.5m people are appalled by the spiralling descent into madness that's plain to see outside of the leave bubble & signed it? Of course you haven't.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:07
  #6673 (permalink)  
 
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Makes me wonder what would have happened if the leave campaign had been as well coordinated, rather than being the complete and utter shambles that it was (and still is).
err I think its been extremely well organised and planned. Its basically managed to out wit all of the remain tactics to prevent leaving. Its not focusing on public opinion I will grant you, Mainly I suspect they know fine its a lot of noise for extremely little gain. They focus on ensuring the process doesn't get deflected away from the goal.

Just look at the threads on here. Pretty much everyone has the same opinion as when it all started.

Has it occurred to you that the reason it's at 3.5m signatures is because 3.5m people are appalled by the spiralling descent into madness that's plain to see outside of the leave bubble & signed it? Of course you haven't.
I have and I suspect the vast majority of the signatures voted remain when the referendum occurred. But the remain plan for preventing exit has been outsmarted and out manoeuvred by the leave side.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:14
  #6674 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
You've created a conspiracy in your head there & convinced yourself it's real the space of two paragraphs. Has it occurred to you that the reason it's at 3.5m signatures is because 3.5m people are appalled by the spiralling descent into madness that's plain to see outside of the leave bubble & signed it? Of course you haven't.
No I haven't at all. Read my last paragraph. I'm actually impressed by the way the remain campaign are coordinating things (and there's no doubt at all they are, just look at the paid for ads they have put up over the past day or so to get people to sign this petition).
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:15
  #6675 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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The fines and criminal investigations leave keep attracting certainly suggest a level of commitment.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:27
  #6676 (permalink)  
 
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Who is actually paying these fines though I would have thought after the event then the entities will have pretty much zero cash left. And the only ones they have managed to pin anything on mainly because they can't afford decent legal representation have been spotty youths.

The fines that have been given out are chicken feed compared to the other amounts spent. And to be honest as the result required was obtained will just be looked at a petty cash expenses.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:32
  #6677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Who is actually paying these fines though I would have thought after the event then the entities will have pretty much zero cash left. And the only ones they have managed to pin anything on mainly because they can't afford decent legal representation have been spotty youths.

The fines that have been given out are chicken feed compared to the other amounts spent. And to be honest as the result required was obtained will just be looked at a petty cash expenses.
Sadly for the integrity of your previous arguments, who paid them and the scale isn't especially the point. The point...well, you seem to have a lot to say for yourself, let's see if you can work it actually out and everything.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:35
  #6678 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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A significant part of the referendum expenses issue seems to have stemmed from the incorrect guidance given by the Electoral Commission, confirmed by the High Court, who said that the Electoral Commission had misinterpreted the referendum rules when giving written guidance to campaigners.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:41
  #6679 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
And to be honest as the result required was obtained will just be looked at a petty cash expenses.
If that means remain in name only, or not leave at all, then I would say remain would celebrate a job done well and worth the cost, and the exit side can hang their heads in shame thinking that the referendum result would be upheld by Westminster so did not feel the need to make as much effort to leave.

Whether that view will hold if we remain and the UK economy still gets into difficulties, along with those in Europe that are rumoured to have some financial issues coming along and those that already are having problems with their economies, only time will tell.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 19:42
  #6680 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
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For those questioning my arithmetic earlier on , and rightly so in some ways . but I was deliberately choosing numbers to be fair to Quit campaigners because if you express it in percentages it looks much much closer -no one from the Quit side ever says 3 years ago 4% more people voted leave because that is a very small number where a million or so is a big number and sounds like a landslide . Of course they are exactly the same .

Equally politicians say MPs are ignoring 17m voters but what about the 16M who voted the other way-should they be completely ignored - a suitable deal brexit could be argued as a fair representation of the result but a no deal cannot be.

The next thing is the THREE years ago. THREE years ago TM was elected to head the conservative party , now numerous MPs are calling for her head-they have changed their minds from how they voted THREE years ago because they now know shes not up to the job, but the public cannot have the same opportunity-hypocrisy or what.

In these circumstances where neither party wholly supports any option, the PM is completely out of her depth, ministers say one thing one day and another thing the next. People like Mrs Ledsom say this is now a remainer cabinet-well its got every right to be if it wants to cannot MPs change their minds when they know more about something . In sucha situation the only solution is a referendum so why are Quit so so so scared to death about a second referendum

As I wrote earlier we had a ratification referendum in the 70s so why not now, thatwas in response to somene saying we could have a second referendum in 2057 , it doesnt matter if the situations as regards what the EEC was then and the Eu is now because then was then and now is now , you can only vote for whats in front of you and a second referendum was managed then why not now. Now we know theres no 350M a week going to the NHS, we know there are no wonderful trade deals out there, we know leaving would be a shambles, we know the Russians and others gave money illegally to the Quit campaign.

Have some quitters taken just too much money from tax dodgers and the Russians to be comfortable with not delivering the goods-only speculation of course,







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