Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:12
  #6641 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chez Sprog
Posts: 493
Here's how this stuff works. Weird, very IT literate kids on 4Chan (look it up) are talking about DDOS attacks on the epetitions site. They hit it heavily with fake emails from the Sahara, Narnia & the negative zone, lift the metadata, pass it on to selected friendly journos, yes, you, Guido, where it's amplified in a disinformation narrative & ends up in places like this. Meanwhile, Noooooo one on leave believes for a second the Russians, Cambridge Analytica or Arron Banks had anything to do with anything & round & round it goes.
Sprogget is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:14
  #6642 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by One Outsider View Post
What utter nonsense. British citizens, no matter where in the world they are, or UK residents can sign the petition.
So, are you saying that the missing 1,710,027 signature locations are all British ex-pats then?

Seems pretty far fetched, even for JB.

VP959 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:22
  #6643 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post


Under my proposal if the majority to remain is 60% - 1 then remain loses and we exit the EU. That’s it - no more referendums. None. If there were to be a second referendum then whilst the hard facts of leaving are now known and understood, the hard facts of remaining not so much. Remain would have to come under the same scrutiny with regards to the long term aims of the EU. Likely - will there be an EU Army, will there be enforced monetary union, Will it become more accountable to the EU wide electorate, will the HoP eventually become redundant to be replaced by an EU equivalent, will our Monarchy continue? These are deep seated and legitimate questions to ask among many many others about the long term future of the EU.

If the majority of the electorate want to cede everything to the EU in the long term so they would need to lobby very hard in any second referendum. But if the result of all that is 60+1 to leave then I would accept it.
I like your style....

Trouble is, though, nobody knows where the EU will actually end up - those wanting NOT to leave have already denied EU army, no expansion into the Balkans, no loss of soveeignity, etc, and would continue to deny it and millions would swallow those lies, whereas those of us who can think past the end of our nose know where the EU is going to end up unless it is stopped.

A retrurn to a simple Free Trade Area without the political bolleaux would be acceptable to 95% of all 400+ million people currently living in the EU - but unacceptable to the 5% who are the direct benficiaries of the EU's largesse and ideology which includes, unfortunately, the political establishment and decision makers.
Hussar 54 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:25
  #6644 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,725
So it Brexit delayed?
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:29
  #6645 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
I like your style....

Trouble is, though, nobody knows where the EU will actually end up - those wanting NOT to leave have already denied EU army, no expansion into the Balkans, no loss of soveeignity, etc, and would continue to deny it and millions would swallow those lies, whereas those of us who can think past the end of our nose know where the EU is going to end up unless it is stopped.

A retrurn to a simple Free Trade Area without the political bolleaux would be acceptable to 95% of all 400+ million people currently living in the EU - but unacceptable to the 5% who are the direct benficiaries of the EU's largesse and ideology which includes, unfortunately, the political establishment and decision makers.
I need to correct the last sentence of my post. I meant to say if the the result of any second referendum was 60+1 to remain, I would accept that. Other than that I understand the sentiments you express.

Off to the cinema now.
yellowtriumph is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:57
  #6646 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
So, are you saying that the missing 1,710,027 signature locations are all British ex-pats then?

Seems pretty far fetched, even for JB.
Well I, family, friends and contacts locally can probably account for a good 10-20 legimate "off shore" voters.

The fact that some people were rushing to yell "foul" at the sight of non-UK addresses shows a certain lack of willingness on their part to spend time doing any fact checking on who is could vote.. but hey, lets blow that dog whistle

And TBH it's not even an advisory" petition, it's sadly not likely to get to 17.4 million...so ultimately I'm really not sure people would be best advised to to start worked up about the possibility of foreign interference in the process...
wiggy is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:02
  #6647 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Well I, familiy, friends and contacts locally can probably account for a good 10-20 legimate "off shore" voters...

The fact that some people were rushing to yell "foul" at the sight of non-UK addresses shows a certain lack of willingness on their part to spend time doing any fact checking on who is could vote.. but hey, lets blow that dog whistle

And TBH it's not even an advisory" petition, it's sadly not likely to get to 17.4 million...so ultimately I'm really not sure people would be best advised to to start worked up about the possibility of foreign interference in the process...
But, is it realistic for a petition that's supposed to be eligible only to UK citizens, to have over 1.7 million signatures that cannot be attributed to UK residents, out of a total of around 3 million?

How many British ex-pats are there? I seem to recall that someone here mentioned a figure of around 1 million, so that's nowhere near enough to account for the 1.7 million unattributable signatures, even if all of them decided to sign.
VP959 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:05
  #6648 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,969
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Well I, family, friends and contacts locally can probably account for a good 10-20 legimate "off shore" voters.

The fact that some people were rushing to yell "foul" at the sight of non-UK addresses shows a certain lack of willingness on their part to spend time doing any fact checking on who is could vote.. but hey, lets blow that dog whistle

And TBH it's not even an advisory" petition, it's sadly not likely to get to 17.4 million...so ultimately I'm really not sure people would be best advised to to start worked up about the possibility of foreign interference in the process...
I'm no IT expert, but I thought those sorts of figures were extrapolated from IP addresses. Many people in UK working for overseas companies will have IP addresses originating from outside the UK, so I suppose this could account for a goodly number of "signatures" from abroad.

Just supposing the number of signatures hits 10m I think May might have some serious thinking to do, as if she hasn't got enough to do already.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:15
  #6649 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I'm no IT expert, but I thought those sorts of figures were extrapolated from IP addresses. Many people in UK working for overseas companies will have IP addresses originating from outside the UK, so I suppose this could account for a goodly number of "signatures" from abroad.

Just supposing the number of signatures hits 10m I think May might have some serious thinking to do, as if she hasn't got enough to do already.

Those in the UK, help me out please....

I thought that these petitions required a debate in parliament if they reached a certain number - but don't become law or require the Government to do anything unless the debate morphs into a vote on the subject of the petition.

If that is the case, which as I said, I don't know, then whether the petition has 2 million signatures or 200 million signatures, isn't it just a cause of yet another few hours of Brexit debate in Parliament ?

Or is it something much more sinister ??

Hussar 54 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:16
  #6650 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I'm no IT expert, but I thought those sorts of figures were extrapolated from IP addresses. Many people in UK working for overseas companies will have IP addresses originating from outside the UK, so I suppose this could account for a goodly number of "signatures" from abroad.

Just supposing the number of signatures hits 10m I think May might have some serious thinking to do, as if she hasn't got enough to do already.
Is no one actually bothering to look at the numbers?

At the time of that screenshot there were just under 3 million signatures, yet only 1.26 million of these appear to have come from the UK. The implication is that over 1.7 million signatures came from somewhere unknown. That strikes me as being a massive anomaly, and not one that can be explained by a relatively small number of British ex-pats signing anonymously from around the world.

Where have the unaccounted for 1.7 million signatures originated from?
VP959 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:16
  #6651 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 55
Posts: 0
So it Brexit delayed?
Not yet, they still have a couple of things to get through parliament and the house of lords before they could delay.

Its still the same situation as it was two years ago.

Just supposing the number of signatures hits 10m I think May might have some serious thinking to do, as if she hasn't got enough to do already.
Why its none binding and she will be gone soon.
tescoapp is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 15:02
  #6652 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 355
I signed the petition, just out of interest as it will not have any effect.
I was using a German IP address but gave my correct UK email and street address and it was accepted.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 15:19
  #6653 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Inside
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by VP959
Is no one actually bothering to look at the numbers?
Apparently no even yourself. The numbers from 10 minutes ago.





One Outsider is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 15:27
  #6654 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by One Outsider View Post
Apparently no even yourself. The numbers from 10 minutes ago.
So why are the reported numbers now wildly different from the screenshots taken earlier?

The update times were valid at the time I looked, too, so slowing down the data update doesn't seem to have been the cause.

I didn't fiddle with them, that was the data in the .json download that anyone can access.
VP959 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 15:53
  #6655 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: No longer in Jurassic Park eating Toblerone....
Posts: 2,654

The Euro dropped about 1.5 cents on the back of these results today.....
LowNSlow is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 15:59
  #6656 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: La Rochelle.
Age: 45
Posts: 500
24 hours ago when I posted the petition link, it had 800,000 signatures. It now has nearly 3.4m. I don't think the guaranteed debate in parliament is necessary nor do I think it would ever be a motion. However, should it get to say, 8.5m and still be rising then I think on the basis of statistics alone, it might start getting some serious political interest. An opposing petition, 'Brexit re article 50: it must not be suspended/stopped under any circumstances' stopped at around 117k a few months back but circumstance were different then.
clareprop is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 16:40
  #6657 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 60
Speaking entirely for myself (consistent brexiteer) I would not ever subscribe to any online petition of the nature now being discussed. I rely on the referendum result to deliver the exit. That is not to eliminate the possibilty of others to try to subsequently reverse the process, in a legal manner.
rifruffian is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 16:44
  #6658 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,024
BBC now reporting that the Petition has been hijacked by bots - one claim that one source only has voted over 33,000 times, and continuing to generate numbers.

Let's open a rival 'No deal exit next week' one and see how the bot war develops - when one exceeds the population of UK, a winner is declared

(This whole business speaks eloquently of the competence of whoever set up an IT system so laughably vulnerable to misuse).
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 16:44
  #6659 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 55
Posts: 0
To be honest I wouldn't give a factual reply to any survey I was asked questions about Brexit.

Those PMI results are worse than I expected. Things might kick in sooner rather than later.

BBC now reporting that the Petition has been hijacked by bots - one claim that one source only has voted over 33,000 times, and continuing to generate numbers.
Well a certain singing PPRuNe member has been missing in action since it started...…. so it might not be a bot.
tescoapp is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 16:57
  #6660 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,860
BBC now reporting that the Petition has been hijacked by bots - one claim that one source only has voted over 33,000 times, and continuing to generate numbers.
Well the BBC are certainly reporting this..

Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested that "Russian collusion" was behind the unprecedented traffic towards the Brexit petition.

While Russia is notorious for seeking to meddle in the politics of the west, on this occasion there is a question mark over what its intentions would be, added Prof Woodward.[one of three cyber security experts quoted by the BBC in this piece]

"All the evidence is that Russia was supporting the Leave campaign," he said.

"So why would they suddenly be supporting Remain?"



https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47668946
wiggy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.