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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 22nd Mar 2019, 01:15
  #6621 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Seems I was wrong about the Scottish vote, certainly read it as 60% somewhere in the dim distant...
1979 one Sally. Referendum had a cut off point under which a Yes to devolution vote wouldn't count. The vote was yes but turnout didn't hit the cut off.

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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 06:17
  #6622 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
As for Stupid Woman-Corbyn was right about one thing in this fiasco the opening few lines say it all

Three years ago ..

Yes three years ago we voted about something 99% of the population knew nothing about apart from what the daily Mail told itss readers. Three eyars on we all know far more and the claims it was all going to be easy lie in dust on the floor of Westminster

So why no second referendum , there were two in the 70s just two years apart= , one to join and the other to say-obviously people were more sensible in the 1970s -well we have been members for 2 years do we carry on. Apparently that was possible in the mid 70s but not now.

The sole reason why there is no second referendum is that the quitters will lose and those behind it will lose a lot of money-and the ones who took the Russian money may lose even more .

Organising another referendum is dead easy-easier than a general election which can be done and dusted in a month so you just have to wonder why. THREE YEARS ago , we have no trade deals no clean way of leaving ( walking away without paying whats due would be a lawyers birthday to say nothing of no one ever wanting to do business with the UK again ever. for me its not so much the EU is great but its far better than Americas poodle state in Europe and far better than the conservative right who will do just about anything to retain privilege and wealth even if 90% of the country suffer for it.
And yes it is true 17m people voted to leave but 16 and a bit million voted to stay and you cannot just ignore that number of people and they pay most of the tax in this country based on earnings demographics educational standards etc .
What about the people who didn't bother their arse voting,or chose not to? They could have swung the vote in Remains favour..........
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 06:38
  #6623 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by StAn gelo View Post
What about the people who didn't bother their arse voting,or chose not to? They could have swung the vote in Remains favour..........
Or leave, or evenly split 50:50.
Fact is the 'educated' youth couldn't be arsed, and there weren't enough 'educated' remainers to swing it their way
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 06:48
  #6624 (permalink)  
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"The Long March " Day 6. " Bodyguard of Lies " declared success. Media now totally distracted from Battalions advances. Wetherspoons to be awarded red white and blue plaque for "outstanding services to the nation "! "Betty's Tea Room " shunned for being too elitist ! Morale boosting DVD's of Divine Saviour now carried in receptacle of tactical support Portaloo. Pontefract cakes ( no fruits ) await Battalion on entry !......Yorkshire now declared annexed !.......

Meanwhile........ JB encapsulated.....does contain a reference to Brexit.....and grammar.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...pular-opinions

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 22nd Mar 2019 at 07:53.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 06:56
  #6625 (permalink)  
 
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Its the same with the ex-pat cut off at 15 years.

Nobody really knows how many or how they would vote its just an excuse for the remains arguing for a re-run.

I must admit in the ex pat pub it only seemed to be us leavers that bothered our backsides to get a postal vote and use it. But realistically if all the expats in the EU had used their right to vote and voted for remain it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Just brought the difference down to under a million.

SNP got the under 16's involved in the Scottish referendum thinking the Scottish were bound to vote to break the union. Back fired spectacularly there was schools in the heart land with extremely pro SNP teachers banging it at the kids day in day out. They had mock referendums to try and influence them. Some of them were coming back 80% NO.

So its just a time wasting exercise to try and think of something to prevent it. Personally I class it as guerrilla warfare tactics.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 07:00
  #6626 (permalink)  
 
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So we get an extension even if the WA is voted out.....goalposts moved by the EU, any sort of trick to keep us in
So now we have both our own parliament and the EU pulling any trick they can think of to overturn Brexit
and sh1t on the UK vote
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 07:14
  #6627 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post

I must admit in the ex pat pub it only seemed to be us leavers that bothered our backsides to get a postal vote and use it. But realistically if all the expats in the EU had used their right to vote and voted for remain it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Just brought the difference down to under a million..
You are probably right but I rather suspect amongst many ex-pats might have been different if they had realised the uncertainties Brexit might bring to the little things in life such as the provision of Healthcare (fortunately for them it appears some countries in he EU27 might have a sense of responsibility..as long as TM stops continually trying to p*** them off) or the value of their Sterling origin pension.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 07:31
  #6628 (permalink)  
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The Times:

LAST CHANCE FOR FRANCE

Although no one now has a clue when, or if, we are leaving the EU, the French seem eager to get one last whiff of les rosbifs. A press release from Direct Ferries reports a 7 per cent increase this year in the number of day trips French customers are making to Britain. The company also polled supermarkets in Dover to find out what the French are stockpiling. Out top is tea (surely they have that in Calais?), followed by two products that sound more appetising in translation: tourte au porc, a delicacy associated with Melton Mowbray, and infusion de fer, a fizzy orange magic potion popular with Scotsmen.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 08:02
  #6629 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
No I wasn't being serious, I was just responding to your reply.

My point was simply that pax mentioned the 'little bit' for the extra 0.1 million for one side of the vote but round down by 0.4 million (without any mention of a 'big bit') for the other. Simply pointing out the obvious bias in their comment.
quite, so was I, here is another loved by the media:

The margin of leavers represented 7.5% of those that wanted to remain.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 08:07
  #6630 (permalink)  
 
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Just for clairity here are the results of the last four UK referenda.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 08:11
  #6631 (permalink)  
 
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You are probably right but I rather suspect amongst many ex-pats might have been different if they had realised the uncertainties Brexit might bring to the little things in life such as the provision of Healthcare (fortunately for them it appears some countries in he EU27 might have a sense of responsibility..as long as TM stops continually trying to p*** them off) or the value of their Sterling origin pension.
That tends to be a group of expats who are living in certain countries which will be the majority. I had already presumed there was going to be that sort of nonsense for a while and it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the way I voted and neither did crap written on the side of a bus. But its our choice where we want to live.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 08:52
  #6632 (permalink)  
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https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/l...-hardest-word/

.......This is starting to feel like the endgame, both for Brexit and for this prime minister. Whatever is agreed by April 12, it’s hard to imagine May staying in power for too much longer. The Telegraph splashes on a report that all-important backbench leader Graham Brady visited No. 10 on Monday to tell her that dozens of Tory MPs are clamoring for her to go. The paper also details a series of other confrontations between May and backbench MPs.

In his weekly Telegraph column, the Spectator’s well-connected editor, Fraser Nelson, writes: “Ministers who have spoken to her in the last few days have come away with the impression that she has started her endgame. That she has accepted that, while three or four Brexit options remain, none of them are made better by her staying on as prime minister.” He concludes she should offer to quit next week to convince Tory MPs to pass the deal. “To offer her resignation now is, perhaps, her most powerful card,” Nelson writes.......
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 08:58
  #6633 (permalink)  
 
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If she knows she is going anyway she also has the option of just crashing out.

To note the extensions are only on offer, the secondary legislation to change the 29th still has to go through the house and the lords before they can be utilised. No doubt some remainer will have a go at changing things and screw everything up.

As such nothing has been tabled yet. If the secondary legislation isn't started by Tuesday then it doesn't matter what the out come of the deal vote is. If the speaker allows it to be put in front of the house anyway.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 09:13
  #6634 (permalink)  
 
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If May does state she will resign if they sign the deal, then they do not, which in all likelihood that is what will happen, though that does also depend on Bercow allowing the deal to go for a vote as it will not have been changed at all post his statement that that is the only way he will allow it.

Then we are into more delay, prevarication, bluster and uncertainty while whoever takes over starts again with the only deal the EU will accept, none of this is going to change what both sides of Brexit see as a bad deal for UK, but a good one for the EU, that is at least one thing both sides of the Brexit debate in Westminster appear to agree on.

What if you end up with a more avid remain PM, this will go on for ever and we will then have the wasted effort in time and cost of MEP elections which both the UK and EU said they would not be doing, conversely what if it is an avid exit PM, it will end up with the same result, with the addition of the EU who will keep agreeing to kick it down the road further if it looks even remotely like the UK will abide by their rules within Article 50, the same law that a huge majority in the HoC’s voted for when they accepted Article 50 to be issued.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 09:32
  #6635 (permalink)  
 
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The whole scene in Euroland is likely to change significantly anyway after May. By the time the new parliament and Commission is sitting it will be a completely different picture. They are likely to be in a full blow recession as well, with various banks going tits up and arguments about if the states can stop them or they are left to drown.

The sensible thing would be to do a legally binding agreement that the UK will leave no deal on the 29th date. But everything would remain static until the new EU parliament sits and both sides just crack on sorting out the admin for that date. Business would have a deadline. Civil servants would know what's happening. If certain things both sides want to continue can be extended for a longer period then so be it.

But while this fannying around is continuing nothing can be done. Eu sort out its new parliament, UK sorts out its change in picture over the summer then start negotiations for a trade deal in September or on the 29th March 2020. By that point it should be glaringly obvious to both sides what it actually means that the UK is out the CU. Which I will predict will show that the remains have been talking mince. And raw data will rule the day either way.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 09:57
  #6636 (permalink)  
 
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Times like this, I think of Bertrand Russell. 'The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.'
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 10:05
  #6637 (permalink)  
 
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Banks going tits up? Europe in recession? Are you just making this up or do you have actual peer reviewed facts to back it up?
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 10:11
  #6638 (permalink)  
 
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Banks going tits up? Europe in recession? Are you just making this up or do you have actual peer reviewed facts to back it up?
Not necessarily, but

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/03/20/german-alarm-grows-eus-dangerous-ultimatum-terms-britain/

​​​​​​​
may give some non-politicians perspective on possible futures.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 10:23
  #6639 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MAINJAFAD View Post
1979 one Sally. Referendum had a cut off point under which a Yes to devolution vote wouldn't count. The vote was yes but turnout didn't hit the cut off.
Thank you. That's where it will have come from.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 10:28
  #6640 (permalink)  
 
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Today’s papers are saying the EU has “taken control”. Which is odd since nothing seems any more under control than it has been for the last three years. What it has shown is that an immovable position can actually be quite fluid in order to avoid no-deal. If they hate the idea so much perhaps it’s not so bad?
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