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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 20th Mar 2019, 08:51
  #6481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Originally Posted by Snyggapa View Post
Could be like myself and 15% of my company, working solely on Brexit issues. Or my other half, doing the same. IT, legal, compliance, tax, regulations. Consultants everywhere working out WTF is going on and the best course of action.

I have never been so busy doing work that is of so little value. And the kicker, the work we are doing is setting up a French office to move the business and the people to retain the ability to do business in the EU. Jobs will go from the UK, including mine, IT systems need to be rebuilt and re-programmed to handle French tax and French VAT , systems need to be physically move out of the UK to the EU. My other half is lucky, they are not moving to Paris. They are moving to Dublin.

So in our household of two, that's 2 jobs down, plus the childminder, the cleaner, the sandwich shops, the days out. But in the meantime we're so damn busy trying to prepare for the mess that we have to employ extra to keep the company ticking. I work for a small firm of ~30, she works for one of 300. It's a false dawn before the storm
Predictably, the Mail reading blowhards who like to bang on about civil war & a non existent past choose to ignore this, an actual consequence of their dogmatic ideal while an actual leaver who deserves respect acts with an emotional intelligence that can only be described as wholly admirable.

'The Brexit looming before the UK today looks nothing like the Brexit promised in 2016. The goalposts have shifted, negotiations have been arduous and the biting realities of trade have crept up on Britain’s lawmakers. In truth, there is now as strong an argument for revoking article 50 as there is for continuing down the path laid out by Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement. '


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/w...rder-1.3831635
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 09:02
  #6482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Whatever the final outcome of Brexit, and we surely can't be far from finding out now, one thing has become abundantly clear - the UK party political, and electoral system is totally unfit for purpose and needs radical change to function properly, in the event of another international crisis, whether of our own, or someone else's making.

It is evident that, unlike in many other developed countries, our principal political parties talk across, and rarely to each other. The main parties have more interest in their own internal affairs and battles than they do in serving the public, and they have evolved into this situation because it's little short of a convenient pantomime where either or the other alternates periods of absolute (non-cooperative) power. Minor parties, that could act as moderators to either main party and their more extreme policies are squeezed out by the first past the post electoral system.

Had we had a more consensual system with Brexit, a majority would have coalesced around a moderate workable and achievable Brexit, and we'd have left on 29th March, with the majority (and I don't just mean the 52%) onside. As it is Theresa May dares not say "boo" to either wing of her party in case it causes a split; that's not running the country, it's pandering to the party. I don't pretend that Labour would be any different.

As a start, I'd get shot of the House of Commons and Lords as they exist now, change the Westminster building into a museum, and build a new modern chamber, and a completely new set of procedures, minus the historical, farcical traditions. No Blackrod, no mace, no Mr. Speaker (robes and arcane language) much as I enjoy his comedy one-liners and move our democracy and parliament into the 21st century. Make the Lords an elected Senate, and both houses elected on a more representational basis. Until we do something like that we will remain, languishing in the past.

However, I have less confidence that anything will change than I do of the UK not leaving the EU.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 11:35
  #6483 (permalink)  
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Public service announcement :

Alternative diversions from Brexit for the Summer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/46484421
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 11:43
  #6484 (permalink)  
 
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In spite of the fact that Westminster should be turned into a Museum-in the UK it would be turned into apartments for rich Russians and Chinese .

Move it to Birmingham close to the epicentre of the country and see how many MPs pack the job in-that's a good point in itself.
get rid of the archaic confrontational system and make them sit in a semi circle or similar , no more Queen opening parliament Black Rods etc., you still need a speaker but they should wear civvies . Never happen because of vested interests and tradition-yes a tradition of democracy that lets a tiny group of right wing nationalists control a critical situation. Asecond referendum isnt democracy but three votes in parliament on the exact same thing is??.

And the other thing to moan about today is that Trump Junior writing in the Borisgraph going on about the death of democracy and hes from America where democracy can be summed up in three characters $ $ $, we are not that, yet. ( Boris of course would become a stayer in a heartbeat if he was promised No 10 as a consequence)

And if you are interested in democracy more than the Daily mail, check out an MSP proposed draft bill prevention MSPs/MPs from having second sources of income especially as they claim being an MP is very demanding on time and energy-they clearly cannot commit to other things can they.

And the Quiiters are now in total panic mode as they see the result of their orchestrated lying, ultra biased media hate campaigns and grasping hold of Russian and other dubious sources of funds cash slipping away . And you don't take Russian money and not deliver the goods not if you want to stay healthy .

Take back control= give it to a corrupt outdated expensive and ineffective non representational organisation whose incompetence and disloyalty has been on global TV for months making us the laughing stock of the world. Not because we are much worse than many countries but because we always shout that we are the best-we are british we dont do things like Johnny Foreigner.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 12:25
  #6485 (permalink)  
 
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Everybody lied - the EU apologists don't have a sole right to complain about the politicos lying pre-Brexit

After all, it's perfectly OK, apparently....

At the height of the eurozone crisis, Mr Juncker was described as the “master of lies” for organising a meeting of finance ministers to talk about whether Greece could remain in the single currency and then trying to deny it was taking place.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ve-to-lie.html
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 12:28
  #6486 (permalink)  
 
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Vintage May. Sets a very negative tone.

How NOT to write a letter
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 12:38
  #6487 (permalink)  
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Sfm, true, accurate to the point of boredom. She should have stripped it down to the barebones. They know all the ins and outs, just tell him what is wanted.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 12:48
  #6488 (permalink)  
 
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Yes butt he lies -if they were lies and generally they were exaggerations or predictions by the remain side nothing remotely to compare with the Boris bus and leaving the Eu will be the easiest deal ever.

And will we have the teeth or the balls of the Eu to kick Google into line. I dont think so-and in any event will they care -no they wont. Size matters these days and we will go from having a top seat at the top table to being the ones serving the food.

Utter shambles and this is not a party issue-Labour have failed as dismally in their own role as the Tories have as government. we should definitely have another referendum but this one should demand a complete overhaul of parliament -the fact that its the oldest one around shows how out of date it is in the modern world and doesnt serve the UK well at all.

I wonder if the speaker would vote remain if there was a tie, the rules about the speaker are all tied to partisan ship and party loyalties but as we have all seen brexit is not a party issue , which is why parliament has made a dogs breakfast of it as much as the Government have. Could he vote remain on that basis , it would seem he isnt breaking any constitutional or rather procedural rules because of course we do not have a constitution in the UK
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 13:16
  #6489 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
I wonder if the speaker would vote remain if there was a tie, the rules about the speaker are all tied to partisan ship and party loyalties but as we have all seen brexit is not a party issue , which is why parliament has made a dogs breakfast of it as much as the Government have. Could he vote remain on that basis , it would seem he isnt breaking any constitutional or rather procedural rules because of course we do not have a constitution in the UK
According to a constitutional expert on the box the other night (BBC Parliament) the convention is that in the event of a tie the Speaker case his/her vote such as to maintain the status quo...

..and in complete agreement that those of the opinion that the current Westminster system is no longer fit for purpose.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 13:33
  #6490 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Yes butt he lies -if they were lies and generally they were exaggerations or predictions by the remain side nothing remotely to compare with the Boris bus and leaving the Eu will be the easiest deal ever.

And will we have the teeth or the balls of the Eu to kick Google into line. I dont think so-and in any event will they care -no they wont. Size matters these days and we will go from having a top seat at the top table to being the ones serving the food.

Utter shambles and this is not a party issue-Labour have failed as dismally in their own role as the Tories have as government. we should definitely have another referendum but this one should demand a complete overhaul of parliament -the fact that its the oldest one around shows how out of date it is in the modern world and doesnt serve the UK well at all.

I wonder if the speaker would vote remain if there was a tie, the rules about the speaker are all tied to partisan ship and party loyalties but as we have all seen brexit is not a party issue , which is why parliament has made a dogs breakfast of it as much as the Government have. Could he vote remain on that basis , it would seem he isnt breaking any constitutional or rather procedural rules because of course we do not have a constitution in the UK
No way were Cameron's and Osbornes's lies any less dishonest. They even roped in Obama to try to scare voters. And as for Carne....He lied, recanted and apologised, lied again, admitted he was wrong and apologised, again etc, etc,. etc....As someone on here said at the time, he twists and turns like a twisty turny thing....Either a born and unchangeable liar, or hopeless at forecasting even two years into the future and yet people believe his forecasts about the UK ten years from now. Get serious.

And I think you and far too many EU apologists have a totally incorrect view of the UK's membership of the EU.

The UK has not been an ' important ' member of the EU for years. A seat at the top table ? Sorry, that's reserved for Eurozone members for obvious reasons The UK's money was not important - it was critical, but the UK's influence on the EU's direction and policies absolutely zero.

Another referendum ?? As said on here many times - there was a first referendum about the EEC in 1975; there was the second referendum about the EU in 2016 ; so I agree that there should be a third and deciding referendum - in 2057 !
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 13:54
  #6491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
According to a constitutional expert on the box the other night (BBC Parliament) the convention is that in the event of a tie the Speaker case his/her vote such as to maintain the status quo...
It will be interesting in those circumstances to find out how the Speaker defined the 'status quo'.
Would that be the status quo before the referendum? Or the status quo before May asked for the extension?
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 13:59
  #6492 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Another referendum ?? As said on here many times - there was a first referendum about the EEC in 1975; there was the second referendum about the EU in 2016 ; so I agree that there should be a third and deciding referendum - in 2057 !
Lots of things have been said here many times, and none of the them have any effect on what is actually done.

As a non-resident of the UK, you will of course be particularly aware that your views are irrelevant.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 14:11
  #6493 (permalink)  
 
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Does TM still go to Brussels on her hands and knees , or has she reached the slithering like a snake stage yet..
I assume someone will be making a wagon rut for her for most of April
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 14:11
  #6494 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Lots of things have been said here many times, and none of the them have any effect on what is actually done.

As a non-resident of the UK, you will of course be particularly aware that your views are irrelevant.

I'm neither a resident nor citizen of the UK but I'll still be a part of the EU should the UK actually get round to leaving, and a UK-less EU will be an entirely different and better EU, I hope.

If, on the other hand, you're telling me that I must FO, that would appear to be entirely consistant with UK Remainers' modus operandi but of course I will.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 14:22
  #6495 (permalink)  
 
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Toyota have just announced that they will begin producing a new generation of hybrid cars at its factory in Derbyshire next year, despite the global car industry downturn.

Ford announced last week that they were cutting 5,000 jobs in Germany,

The new hybrid cars built for Suzuki will also use engines produced at Toyota’s Deeside plant in Wales.

Remind me, is this because of Brxit or despite Brexit?
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 15:12
  #6496 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
Toyota have just announced that they will begin producing a new generation of hybrid cars at its factory in Derbyshire next year, despite the global car industry downturn.

Ford announced last week that they were cutting 5,000 jobs in Germany,

The new hybrid cars built for Suzuki will also use engines produced at Toyota’s Deeside plant in Wales.

Remind me, is this because of Brxit or despite Brexit?
It's good news, and I'm glad to hear it. I'd just wish the other car makers would stay here too.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 15:15
  #6497 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
I'm neither a resident nor citizen of the UK but I'll still be a part of the EU should the UK actually get round to leaving, and a UK-less EU will be an entirely different and better EU, I hope.

If, on the other hand, you're telling me that I must FO, that would appear to be entirely consistant with UK Remainers' modus operandi but of course I will.
No FO from me, I think that must be in your imagination. I merely point out that you, like the rest of us, have no influence on Brexit.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 15:30
  #6498 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
No FO from me, I think that must be in your imagination. I merely point out that you, like the rest of us, have no influence on Brexit.

Apologies for having doubted you....

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Old 20th Mar 2019, 16:37
  #6499 (permalink)  
 
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Hopefully at the next General Election the unemployment rate will go up by 650 but of course we will get another 650 numpties in their place .
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 16:42
  #6500 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jindabyne View Post
What a desperately awful place this has become; full of unpleasant, bitter and alarming comment from those on all sides of the argument. And much of It from those who regard themselves as intelligent and worldly wise. Jet Blast has always been a haven for off-the-shoulder and close-to the-knuckle banter, but this particular thread is now well beyond that. In real life, I would hope that the keyboard monsters on here are actually decent and 'normal' people.
Well said jindabyne
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