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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 19th Mar 2019, 09:33
  #6421 (permalink)  
 
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Odd to claim the avalanche of pejorative right wing media doesn't inform a view, and then to spend hours on here amplifying the same, simple, overblown views. It's almost as if there's a credibility gap between the assertion & the output & so we shouldn't believe a word spoken. We're certainly not in Kansas any more.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 09:42
  #6422 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
There was the same utter crap from remain sources. Which I might add was just as un-effective as the leave crap.

I don't read most of the bollocks links posted in this thread, you can predict the tone of it just by the person that has posted it. Then the reply's to the opposition's posts are the standard "that's not a reliable source" etc etc.

Its the same with flat earther vids and chemtrailer video and links. I don't touch them either. By clicking on the link you just give them advertising revenue and encourage the idiots.
Well in that case, re your first paragraph , please feel free to show a montage of headlines from remain orientated media .....with similar histrionic wording.

The second paragraph is equally interesting however....albeit a Freudian and tacit admission as to something which has long been evident in your replies....if you don't mind me saying so, not that I'm overly concerned if you do......but it's nice to see you've embraced introspection...... as underlined above.

Finally, we all know the earth is flat..it has to be because if it was round, nobody could stand up on it now could they.....and chemtrails are very, very, real.....cos I seen lots of them everyday flying over my hovel.....and some are bigger than others ! ..never believe wot the Gov't tells you !
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 09:57
  #6423 (permalink)  
 
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Well in that case, re your first paragraph , please feel free to show a montage of headlines from remain orientated media .....with similar histrionic wording.
I wouldn't know where to start looking for such crap. And even if I did find something you would just say it wasn't from a reliable source.

you can predict the tone of it just by the person that has posted it
To be fair I don't read the leave stuff either because most of it is also click bait stuff and full of advertising. Extremely little content and 98% opinion.

It ends up a fight over who has the best fiction sources. Especially with the financial stuff. Which has been universally incorrect and completely wide of the mark for the last 3 years now.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:18
  #6424 (permalink)  
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:18
  #6425 (permalink)  
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" I wouldn't know where to start looking for such crap. And even if I did find something you would just say it wasn't from a reliable source "

I'm no IT expert, but, I believe a variety of something called search engines are available to assist those searching for information....

On the contrary, regarding your view any sources would be discredited, I, and I'm sure many others, welcome reliable sources and links to them.....so what's stopping you other than emulating Wimpey, Barratt et al ?
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:37
  #6426 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile, a study by KPMG of 300 manufacturers says that two thirds of suppliers to carmakers are thinking of relocating overseas.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:11
  #6427 (permalink)  
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That'll be good for the UK tax coffers then surely? With the advent of a guaranteed minimum income just around the ballot box no one in Britain will have to work. The car industry can relocate to Europe with no cost to Britain in terms of added benefit payouts for the unemployed. All vehicles sold in Britain will have to be imported and if Brexit happens, with the increase in tariff charges, there'll be much more tax money flowing into HMRC coffers.
Altogether a win win for everyone and no more appalling workmanship or Friday cars with which to have to contend.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:22
  #6428 (permalink)  
 
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But it's not about the economy Sally, it's about the non existent EU army, the non existent loss of sovereignty & the non existent unelected bureaucrats running our country.

I have no pity for leavers, none at all. They've willingly swallowed a one way narrative for decades, making them the epitome of easy marks, ripe for the picking. The clearest demonstration of this hive mind is the crescendo of wailing that the Parliament they so desperately & high mindedly wanted to have re-exert it's authority has created among them now it's doing exactly that.

They talk about the will of the people as if it's some kind of prehistoric insect entombed in amber for all eternity, never once stopping to consider that parliament takes its legitimacy from elections held by the public but in this parliament, a different kind of sovereignty has established itself. One where a rank incompetent has cast herself as the sole custodian of that will yet what that actually meant has changed from week to week, sometimes from day to day. No transition, then transition. No deal is better than a bad deal, then it isn't. No extension, then extension. They can't see how the classic authoritarian morphs the will of the people into her & only her will.

Incredibly, given the political precipice she stands on, she abused parliament at every turn. She tried to deny it a vote on triggering article 50, stuffed the withdrawal bill full of statutory instruments, giving ministers huge powers, attempted to block amendments to no deal proposals, and for fear of losing opposition day motions, pretended they weren't happening, refusing to take part.

She refused to publish Government advice on the backstop & when parliament demanded it, tried to ignore the house, leading to the first government being found in contempt in history, a major humiliation & unbelievably, something that didn't cause her resignation. She allowed the house to waste five days debating her withdrawal act then pulled it when she feared losing it & presented it again & then again until the speaker intervened.

This is what taking back control actually looks like. Leavers have the sheer gall to complain about EU democracy, to call remainers - who I would remind you are half the electorate - your friends, neighbours, families, colleagues - when they can't see the stink of what's right in front of them. I could weep for the state of politics in this country, how this absolute buffoon like travesty has reduced a great nation to a laughing stock & the cretins who enabled it.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:24
  #6429 (permalink)  
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It was mentioned earlier about UK manufacture and company ownership moving overseas, quintessentially British companies being foreign owned. I looked up Hanson which at one time was touted as a major British company owning large parts of US industry; out its now German.

Then i looked up a Buick after we had enjoyed driving a hire car in the US; it is now Chinese.

To say that GB plc is now owned by foreign investors maybe true but avoids the obvious conclusion that money goes to where they can make money.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 19th Mar 2019 at 16:11.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:30
  #6430 (permalink)  
 
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Then i looked up a Buick after we had enjoyed driving a hire car in the US; it is now Chinese.
So far as I can see Buick is still a GM brand, at least it is according to the GM website, and I'd assume they know! GM appear also to have interests in a couple of, presumably, Chinese brands among many others.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:30
  #6431 (permalink)  
 
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I'm no IT expert, but, I believe a variety of something called search engines are available to assist those searching for information....

On the contrary, regarding your view any sources would be discredited, I, and I'm sure many others, welcome reliable sources and links to them.....so what's stopping you other than emulating Wimpey, Barratt et al ?
Obviously and you are also unaware of targeted searches and people paying for the search engine prioritising the output. Also as well the search engines store you previous searches and put similar sites to the top of the list to what you have clicked on before. For me that will be zero search history on the subject.

I, and I'm sure many others, welcome reliable sources and links to them
I don't have any of them to be honest as I have said they are all fiction writers who give opinion, who have so far be completely wide of the mark. Even the bank of England have completely screwed the predictions up. Three years ago it was predicted that the UK economy was going to tank and the Eu was going to continue unabated, QE was going and everything is going to be rosy.

Current situation: We are looking at 3 out of 5 of the top Eu countries going into recession this summer (and 1 leaving) and they have just had to extend bank bonds. And the UK is doing rather nicely to be honest given the global conditions. A situation which was completely unpredicted by either side.

You just have to go collect the data yourself and form your own opinion. I use the EU statistic site a fair bit and raw trade data.

Try it, look at the intra EU number of flights and who is flying where and when. Then have a look at the end country's GDP reliance on that traffic.

Then have a look at the EU 28 trade figures with Canada for 2017 or 2018. Then subtract off the UK from them.

I won't tell you what your going to see. And make your own mind up what realistically is going to happen.

Last edited by tescoapp; 19th Mar 2019 at 11:54.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:33
  #6432 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
It was mentioned earlier about UK manufacture and company ownership moving overseas, quintessentially British companies being foreign owned. I looked up Hanson which at one time was touted as a major British company owning large parts of US industry; out its now German.

Then i looked up a Buick after we had enjoyed driving a hire car in the US; it is now Chinese.

To say that GB plc is now owned by foreign investors maybe true but avoids the obvious conclusion that money goes to where our can make money.
Hanson has been German owned for several years, as you would have learned if you'd followed one of their trucks on the motorway.
It is depressing how many 'British' companies now say "A xxxx Company" on their vehicles, where xxxx is a French or German name.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:59
  #6433 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Hanson has been German owned for several years, as you would have learned if you'd followed one of their trucks on the motorway.
It is depressing how many 'British' companies now say "A xxxx Company" on their vehicles, where xxxx is a French or German name.
And there's Vauxhall, who's advertising recently has been bigging up it being a "British brand" for donkey's years Union flag and all), when in reality it have been US, and latterly French owned, and most of it's vehicles are made anywhere but the UK. Marketing and reality are two very different things, and Joe Public are easily fooled (as we found out big time to our cost a couple of years ago!!).
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:02
  #6434 (permalink)  
 
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A majority of people voted to leave the EU in the largest exercise of a democratic vote ever seen in the UK. David Cameron made a promise to abide with the result of the referendum. Unfortunately the referendum result was not what David Cameron or his government wanted or expected.

In the subsequent election, both the Conservative and Labour Parties campaigned on a platform of delivering Brexit. The Liberal Democrates campaigned in favour of remaining in the EU and saw their share of the vote fall, a clear indication that the overall majority of people did want Brexit.

Sadly, the intelligensia, a proporiton of big business and those generally insulated from reality by great wealth or social position did not agree with Brexit. They have fought tooth and nail to prevent Brexit by any means or sought to disguise a deal that would ensure Brexit in name only as a good move for the UK.

We (collectively) voted to leave the EU, a clear and simple decision. MPs were elected to enact that decision. Those MPs must carry out the mandate upon which they campaigned and were elected. It was a binary decision and there is no room for compromise or obsfucation when it comes to Brexit. The UK must leave the EU and then negotiations about our future relationship may begin. The EU has said as much right from the beginning of the Brexit process.

When the UK leaves the EU it will set a precedent, a blueprint, that other countries may follow should they also decide to leave the EU. That is why so many details are being discussed and examined in minute detail.

The EU has something of a record in requiring multiple votes or referenda until the result the EU wants is arrived at. That is why the result of the referendum needs to be honoured and the UK must leave the EU, it is the only way to prove that the EU is not the evil empire it currently appears to be.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:05
  #6435 (permalink)  
 
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And some more good news on the UK economy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47622415
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:16
  #6436 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
there is no room for compromise or obsfucation when it comes to Brexit.
Turns out there's actually quite a lot of that.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:17
  #6437 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
And some more good news on the UK economy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47622415
Excellent. See what is achievable by holding EU membership? Why throw that away?
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:21
  #6438 (permalink)  
 
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Gouli

We (collectively) voted to leave the EU, a clear and simple decision. MPs were elected to enact that decision. Those MPs must carry out the mandate upon which they campaigned and were elected. It was a binary decision and there is no room for compromise or obsfucation when it comes to Brexit. The UK must leave the EU and then negotiations about our future relationship may begin. The EU has said as much right from the beginning of the Brexit process.
Indeed. The good faith of the EU is encapsulated in their approach to Article 50, which states, inter alia,

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.
In spite of which direct provision in the article, the EU have consistently refused to discuss future arrangements, concentrating on extorting as much money as possible, but refusing to discuss trade. The apocalyptic predictions of the remain faction before the referendum have not come to pass. You may say, 'ah, not yet, you just wait and see!' I am content to wait and see once we are out of their clutches and can start having a civilised dialogue on mutual benefits.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:43
  #6439 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
And some more good news on the UK economy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47622415
Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Excellent. See what is achievable by holding EU membership? Why throw that away?
How on earth can anyone, even the most fanatical remainer, manage to twist the fact that we have the highest number of people in employment since 1971, to make it seem as it was being in the EU was the cause?

Brexit may not even be a factor in the increased number of people in employment, but what this does show is that UK businesses are, relatively speaking, doing pretty well, despite all the gloom and doom relating to the impact of Brexit on the UK economy. If anything, I would have expected the UK economy to have tanked over the past year, as a consequence of the government's ineptitude in being able to remove uncertainty and negotiate a sensible leaving agreement.

With hindsight, I have no doubt that the better course of action for the UK negotiating team, as soon as they realised that reaching any sort of reasonable agreement with the EU was impossible, would have been to just forget about any sort of deal and have spent all the wasted negotiating time on planning for the UK to leave with no deal. I rather suspect that had we taken a hard position on leaving with no deal a year ago, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. I'm convinced that May, as a remainer, just couldn't stomach leaving the EU, so has been trying to make the UK's "withdrawal agreement" into a way for the UK to half-remain within the EU, with a deal that would be so disastrous for the UK economy that people would end up screaming to be allowed back in to the EU.

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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:45
  #6440 (permalink)  
 
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Excellent. See what is achievable by holding EU membership? Why throw that away?
Its nothing to do with EU membership.

Personally I think its all to do with having such a low valued pound which if ART 50 hadn't been issued we wouldn't have had. And if it goes lower it will still have the same effect on exit.

But I will bow to your economic power Ms Garland.
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