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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 13th Mar 2019, 08:53
  #6141 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
never ask them the difficult question "how would you feel if, as a direct result of such a no deal Brexit, you lost your job, or had your hours cut?"
Because that is a loaded closed question the answer is obvious.

" I would feel liberated, I would welcome my universal credit and extra leisure time"

"Do you think you might lose your job or have your hours cut" might be better but is still a closed question the answer to which is probably "no".
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 08:56
  #6142 (permalink)  
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I see the FTSE has reacted - not a lot.

Yet.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 09:10
  #6143 (permalink)  
 
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One of the many flies in the Brexit ointment is the issue of the European elections due in May if Art50 is extended. There would be uproar if the U.K. participated from Brexiteers, however if held on the same day as a general election, so virtually all campaigning would be for that, with the Euro ballot paper as a free extra handout that uproar might well be muted outside of the political chattering classes. Also, our large supermarket friend (among others) seems to think that the legislation delaying Brexit couldnít go through in time if an election was called. I donít believe that to be correct, as it is normal when an election is called for a week or so being spent tidying up outstanding legislation prior to dissolving Parliament.

Possible timeline:
MPs vote tonight against Ďno dealí on March 29th (unless an amendment to rule it out indefinitely is approved.
MPs vote tomorrow for an Art50 extension
EU27 tells May that a longer extension (the often mentioned 21 months) is all they will approve
May decides the only course of action is to call an election to try and break the impasse
Legislation is passed to change the Art50 date in law - given the current numbers in Parliament this could be done quickly as the opposition would go for it, and the ERG and DUP on their own are a small minority so canít stop it
The 2/3rds majority is achieved to call a general election
Parliament is dissolved at the end of April
Combined General and Euro election on May 23rd.

Then the fun really starts - Tories and Labour would need to mention Brexit in their manifesto. In the current climate is there any chance that either could agree something that all candidates could get behind? If the TIG get some more MPs, especially bigger names, and coordinate with the Lib Dems effectively enough, can they build a big enough band wagon to create a hung Parliament? If they can, no prizes for guessing their price for entering a coalition - starts with R and ends with M!
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 09:12
  #6144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Indeed, one daughter and both son s in law voted leave.
Are they willing to run around the streets shooting treasonous remainers with guns they've presumably acquired from Gavin Williamson? Since that's the thrust of this loony strand.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 09:15
  #6145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Because that is a loaded closed question the answer is obvious.

" I would feel liberated, I would welcome my universal credit and extra leisure time"

"Do you think you might lose your job or have your hours cut" might be better but is still a closed question the answer to which is probably "no".
No it's not, asking a question with the word "how" is an open question, as it cannot be answered by yes or no. There are a range of possible answers to what is a very plausible situation. Some might say, "it's a price worth paying", some "I blame the government", some "It's all the EU's fault. It would be interesting to find out how people would react in the event of such unfortunate circumstances.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 09:31
  #6146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
If they can, no prizes for guessing their price for entering a coalition - starts with R and ends with M!
I give up - and I thought I was good at crosswords.

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Old 13th Mar 2019, 09:40
  #6147 (permalink)  
 
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Here's some commendable candour from a prominent leaver & ex Vote leave staff member.

https://twitter.com/OliverNorgrove

I'm now at the stage where I think if we end up not leaving it'll be a blessing. Let's face it, my side just doesn't deserve it. I'm no Remainer, I still dislike the EU and consider it to be undemocratic from top to bottom. I won't campaign for Remain. But I'm sick of being let down and embarrassed by all of this. Also I've become very frustrated with myself for the lack of consideration I showed the Northern Ireland issue a few years ago. (More on this at a later date, but I think it's actually symptomatic of something much wider than Brexit) So, I can no longer commit publicly to being a Brexiteer. I'll follow the issue and give my 2 cents, to anybody who might care about my opinion, where I can. But the pursuit for something I now consider unworkable is pointless. I refuse to be driven into madness by it all.
The UK had to, at some point, face up to this. But its political system just couldn't cope. We fought the referendum like a general election, we triggered A50 without a plan, we never understood how the EU operated nor that Brexit wasn't a standard negotiation. It's been self-deception on an almighty scale. At one point I thought, naively, that I could stand as a better example for the Leave side, but I now realise that it's hopeless. I'm never asked for input, the media cares only for those on the extreme. A recipe for disaster.
I'm quite furious tonight. With general events and with myself. I might open a bottle.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:06
  #6148 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC, Thanks for the link. I noticed that they say that 21% of respondents expressed a possible support for TiG that cohort figured nowhere in their poll. Flawed methodology at best, jiggery pokery at worst. And I am surprised that you didn't mention it.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:12
  #6149 (permalink)  
 
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I hadn't gone on to read the Brexit polling. Actually the figures flatter Leave considerably due to the exclusion of Don't Knows. When you strip those out 40/32 translates into 56/44 in favour of Remain.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:17
  #6150 (permalink)  
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And I am surprised that you didn't mention it.
I posted the link on Guido Fawkes website. I did a google search to find the underlying poll after your request/comment.

The TIG are not yet a party and have neither a national structure or candidates. The polling figures reflect their assessment of the result of a snap election in the next couple of weeks.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:17
  #6151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CargoMatatu View Post
As a Brit living in the EU, this is like watching a car crash in slow motion knowing that you are going to be hit and injured by the debris and able to do nothing to protect yourself!
Know what you mean...we've done what we can over the last 2-3 years to mitigate the effects ( up to and including nationality/citizenship changes for some in the family) but I think now we've done all we can and it's pretty much time to adopt the brace position...

Last edited by wiggy; 13th Mar 2019 at 10:44.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:43
  #6152 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Are they willing to run around the streets shooting treasonous remainers with guns they've presumably acquired from Gavin Williamson? Since that's the thrust of this loony strand.
Stupid statement, all he said was his young(ish) relatives had voted leave and you conflate that into violence. No wonder people have divided opinions about you.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:46
  #6153 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Here's some commendable candour from a prominent leaver & ex Vote leave staff member.

https://twitter.com/OliverNorgrove

I'm now at the stage where I think if we end up not leaving it'll be a blessing. Let's face it, my side just doesn't deserve it. I'm no Remainer, I still dislike the EU and consider it to be undemocratic from top to bottom. I won't campaign for Remain. But I'm sick of being let down and embarrassed by all of this. Also I've become very frustrated with myself for the lack of consideration I showed the Northern Ireland issue a few years ago. (More on this at a later date, but I think it's actually symptomatic of something much wider than Brexit) So, I can no longer commit publicly to being a Brexiteer. I'll follow the issue and give my 2 cents, to anybody who might care about my opinion, where I can. But the pursuit for something I now consider unworkable is pointless. I refuse to be driven into madness by it all.The UK had to, at some point, face up to this. But its political system just couldn't cope. We fought the referendum like a general election, we triggered A50 without a plan, we never understood how the EU operated nor that Brexit wasn't a standard negotiation. It's been self-deception on an almighty scale. At one point I thought, naively, that I could stand as a better example for the Leave side, but I now realise that it's hopeless. I'm never asked for input, the media cares only for those on the extreme. A recipe for disaster.
I'm quite furious tonight. With general events and with myself. I might open a bottle.
I feel the same way.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:47
  #6154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Know what you mean...we've done what we can over the last 2-3 years to mitigate the effects ( up to and including nationality/citizenship changes for some in the family) but I think now we've done all we can and it's pretty much time to adopt the brace position...
Indeed. Thanks to the sheer incompetence of this Government, the only hard fact as of now is the UK will be leaving the EU on the 29th of March.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 11:21
  #6155 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks to the sheer incompetence of this government AND the die-hard determination of remainers AND Corbynís parliamentary dirty-protest...There, fixed it for you PP
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 11:29
  #6156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Thanks to the sheer incompetence of this government AND the die-hard determination of remainers AND Corbynís parliamentary dirty-protest...There, fixed it for you PP
The opposition's role is to oppose. MP's are not delegates, they are there to fulfil a dual role of interpreting public opinion &serve the country's best interests. If these simple precepts are beyond you, then go & sit in the corner with Harley the challenged.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 11:33
  #6157 (permalink)  
 
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Serious disinformation to say that 3 million voters aged 18-24 voted Leave. This section of the uk population amounts to some 7,000,000. Of those who voted 25% voted leave - 1,750,000, turnout was 64%, so around 1,200,000.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 11:38
  #6158 (permalink)  
 
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Just to be clear-the leaders of the Brexit campaign are the traitors , deliberately damaging your country for personal gain and taking foreign ie Russian money to finance a campaign of lies and distortion. is about as close to treason as you can get.

And before people go on about patriotism no one in history was more patriotic than the SS , that didnt do Germany a lot of good did it. Goebbels tame newspapers full of flags and denigration of the established political and legal system resonates a bit too uncomfortably with the lies, flag waving and abuse of politicians and judges who have differing views to them of the Express and Mail

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Old 13th Mar 2019, 12:08
  #6159 (permalink)  
 
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Watching PMís questions. Why does Corbyn insist on wearing badges like some child who has been given a Ďwell doneí sticker at primary school?
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 12:15
  #6160 (permalink)  
 
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Because he has never grown up. He sees it as a great thing that he has not changed any of his opinions in the last half century. It grieves me that, as a long term party member and councillor of some 14 years service I see that party now disintegrating.
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