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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 12th Mar 2019, 07:38
  #6061 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
The silence from "the usual suspects" is deafening.
Presumably as one of those, I'm curious to understand what concessions you believe the PM won from Juncker?
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 08:29
  #6062 (permalink)  
 
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We are now at a crossroads; right up at the "stop" sign.

It sounds as though Mrs. May's "deal 1.1" will be narrowly voted down this evening; then in all probability there will be another vote, tomorrow, that will be passed saying we don't accept no deal. Jean-Claude Juncker said quite clearly yesterday evening that we have had a second chance (and come up with this appendix agreement) and there will be no "third chance".

So, parliament (presumably) doesn't want the deal, and doesn't want "no deal". So the only logical thing they must want is remain. They can't just vote that through as they (both major parties) committed to carrying through the result of the referendum so they must refer it to the people. If they don't then they have to accept either TM's deal, or no deal. There is no other choice. They have to get real and vote for something!
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 08:54
  #6063 (permalink)  
 
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Well on the basis that any deal at all is better than no deal, I hope it works.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:00
  #6064 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Well on the basis that any deal at all is better than no deal, I hope it works.
I agree, given that I really don't believe that MPs have the balls to vote for a new referendum (an extension to which the EU27 would probably give an Art.50 extension) they have to decide which, for them, is the "least worst option". In that there are more MPs (and peers) who if faced with that stark choice would reluctantly vote for her deal as that least worst option.

Then having voted for that the fun really starts, with the UK trying to get a trade deal and frictionless trade without rejoining, or joining a customs union. More attempts at having cake and eating it over the next 18 months.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:01
  #6065 (permalink)  
 
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You'd have to be looking the other way AND holding your nose then. The hype & spin on this set of proposals is so slight & the idea of a unilateral interpretation of a bilateral agreement is so oxymoronic & meaningless that you would in fact be tacitly agreeing to the original deal, the one that Parliament roundly booted out.

To quote someone or other, Nothing has changed, nothing has changed. Except we're a day closer to crystallising the abject failure of this government to govern in the interests of the people it supposedly represents.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:07
  #6066 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
You'd have to be looking the other way AND holding your nose then. The hype & spin on this set of proposals is so slight & the idea of a unilateral interpretation of a bilateral agreement is so oxymoronic & meaningless that you would in fact be tacitly agreeing to the original deal, the one that Parliament roundly booted out.

To quote someone or other, Nothing has changed, nothing has changed. Except we're a day closer to crystallising the abject failure of this government to govern in the interests of the people it supposedly represents.
That may well be the case, but what are the alternatives, given that MPs won't accept no deal. There isn't a "third way" of leaving the EU.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:10
  #6067 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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ATNotts,
We are now at a crossroads; right up at the "stop" sign.
Lincolnshire roads might be more apt. At 4 T-Junctions in 2 miles cars have run through the junction at 3 of them. The 4th has a backdrop in the form of a telephone pile dead centre.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:21
  #6068 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
ATNotts,

Lincolnshire roads might be more apt. At 4 T-Junctions in 2 miles cars have run through the junction at 3 of them. The 4th has a backdrop in the form of a telephone pile dead centre.
Ahh, great joy, Lincolnshire roads (or at least who you in Lincolnshire laughingly refer to as roads!); I'll be enduring them a fair bit over the next 6 weeks or so. Hopefully some of the £350 per week might be diverted to Lincs infrastructure improvement.

Anyway, just seen JR-M interviewed on the BBC News Channel. Sounds very much as though the ERG is likely to swing behind the "new deal" if the DUP are happy with it. If they do that en masse then chances of the deal going though against all the odds are narrowing. However the TiGs, Dominic Grieve and of course the the SNP and the majority of Labour are still (politically) set against.

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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:23
  #6069 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
That may well be the case, but what are the alternatives, given that MPs won't accept no deal. There isn't a "third way" of leaving the EU.
I don't know. Any prediction from here is a punt.

MP's may squeak the PM's deal through for all I know, that does not preclude me from pointing out last night's events amount to a hill of beans.

If not now, then I wonder when it will ever dawn on leavers that irrespective of whether they believe with all their being, the EU is a bully/federalising monster/financial basket case/democratic black hole/the Death star, events show again & again that we are and always were negotiating from a position of weakness. German cars, easy trade deals, £350m a week for the NHS, all fantasy & now we awake to find the PM is touting the idea of winning notional legal cases heard by foreign judges in Strasbourg as taking back control & even then it's a fabrication. Which leaves self immolation, remaining or extending for purposes unknown. We shall see.



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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:46
  #6070 (permalink)  
 
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Presumably Rumpole of The Commons will have to perjure himself to try to get it through. Grieve and Starmer have both said it doesn't change things. The next piece of political fun could be a Border Poll in N.I.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:54
  #6071 (permalink)  
 
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In Fairness, Cox is on good form this morning.


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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:56
  #6072 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
In Fairness, Cox is on good form this morning.


Well that's fairly clear then!!
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 10:01
  #6073 (permalink)  
 
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Well, Cox would say that, wouldn't he? I can smell a stitch up.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 10:29
  #6074 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Well, Cox would say that, wouldn't he? I can smell a stitch up.
The Iraq war. Goldsmith.
Deja vu anyone?
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:10
  #6075 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Well on the basis that any deal at all is better than no deal, I hope it works.
Completely agree. It may well not be exactly what leave voters wanted but this really is it. Nothing better is available at this stage.

I really do hope that it gets approved by the HoC and then the far more important stage which is the future relationship with the EU can start to be negotiated.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:15
  #6076 (permalink)  
 
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Rumpoles advice: Your still f***** !
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:16
  #6077 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/public...awal-agreement

Legal Opinion on Joint Instrument and Unilateral Declaration concerning the Withdrawal Agreement

19. However, the legal risk remains unchanged that if through no such demonstrable failure of either party, but simply because of intractable differences, that situation does arise, the United Kingdom would have, at least while the fundamental circumstances remained the same, no internationally lawful means of exiting the Protocolís arrangements, save by agreement.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:17
  #6078 (permalink)  
 
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Awaiting Pickford's van in Downing street.


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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:41
  #6079 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:44
  #6080 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


The Iraq war. Goldsmith.
Deja vu anyone?
Maybe there is a God after all.
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