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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 7th Mar 2019, 13:58
  #5801 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zoigberg View Post
Gouli, The vote indeed was to leave the Eu. To say that ‘the people’ voted for a hard Brexit and dropping out of our entire trading arrangements with the EU is an extremist view of leaving. I agree that it is up to the Government to make Brexit happen, but not in the utterly mismanaged and chaotic manner we currently have.
I don't really know why Gouli bothers with this high-minded verbiage. In a democracy, people are entitled to change their minds when circumstances change. That's why we have regular elections. And the Brexit circumstances have most certainly changed from the promises of £350 million that could be spent on the NHS, and the easiest trade deal in history. That's what the voters were expecting at the time.

In any case I don't know what he's worried about - we are leaving the EU so he's got his wish. Much may he enjoy the result!
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 14:14
  #5802 (permalink)  
 
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Sally, with respect the people haven't been asked whether their minds have changed - your faction obviously haven't.

Since the vote there have been two wars in progress

1) between the UK and the EU who have been determined to prevent the UK leaving in any meaningful way.

2) Within the UK between those who voted to leave, and the faction who are determined to frustrate a democratic vote.

I know you sincerely believe you are on the right side. I'm not sure what it will mean for the future of the UK as we know it.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 14:30
  #5803 (permalink)  
 
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I'm flabbergasted to see that after all this time, people still think the EU is attempting to thwart our departure.

Exhibit 659: Geoffrey Cox tells EU officials the backstop is a threat to the human rights of Northern Irish citizens. The same backstop that Theresa May proposed. After nearly three years, things are literally at this level of madness now, yet the narrative that obstruction is all on the EU persists. Flabbergasted.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 14:38
  #5804 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
Sally, with respect the people haven't been asked whether their minds have changed - your faction obviously haven't.

1) between the UK and the EU who have been determined to prevent the UK leaving in any meaningful way.
Where do you get that idea from? The EU cannot possibly prevent us from leaving. I'm sure they would like us to stay, but we gave notice to leave and will do so on March 29th. That's all there is to it. If you don't believe me, ask Gouli.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:17
  #5805 (permalink)  
 
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From the British Broadcasting Corporation's News website, "Business Live":

Posted at 14:3214:32
Pound falls as Brexit negotiations continue





However, the GBP (Pound) vs the EUR (Euro) today:





Maybe those 'Brexit negotiations' aren't going that badly for Britain after all?

But the the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Corporation?) might be wanting to tell you something different?
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:18
  #5806 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
the EU who have been determined to prevent the UK leaving in any meaningful way
Nope. They're just asking what we want (that's deliverable within the real world, ie not relying on unicorns etc).

Which is what they've been asking since the vote.

But for some reason we haven't got round to telling them yet.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:26
  #5807 (permalink)  
 
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During the seemingly never ending arguing over this bloody "Backstop", we see an endless stream of UK politicians going to Brussels and saying words to the effect of "Tell, you what. How about we modify that part of the agreement with xxx". And the response seems to unfailingly be "No we won't accept that". This morning I heard a French politician on the Today programme blathering on about what must or must not happen in this regard. To be honest, my subconscious brain filtered out a lot of what she was saying. After all, isn't the UK government negotiating with the EU, not France? She got up my nose somewhat when she began pontificating on how it is the EU's job to ensure the Good Friday agreement was preserved. And there was I, thinking that was a bilateral agreement between the UK and Ireland! It then occurred to me, that we constantly read of EU rebuffs of UK suggestions of a suitable modification of the Backstop arrangement with the comment being made, more than once, that the UK must offer alternatives, must state their objectives etc but I can not recall reading, even once, of suggestions or ideas being put forward by the EU. The stance of the EU is to stonewall the UK entirely with a constant drone of "No" while not offering anything remotely positive. I thought a negotiation usually involved at least 2 parties putting forward ideas/demands with each party successively modifying their demands, creeping closer to the stance of the other party. With both sides doing that, eventually, a compromise is reached. If the EU has nothing to offer in the way of a compromise, even one that may be rejected by the UK, then it is obvious they are not really negotiating at all. If that is the EU's idea of negotiating then small wonder they have spent the last thousand years squabbling and fighting with each other.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:40
  #5808 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
If that is the EU's idea of negotiating then small wonder they have spent the last thousand years squabbling and fighting with each other.
You may not have noticed, but that thousand years ended with the formation of the EEC, now the EU. Not a bad achievement, eh?
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:43
  #5809 (permalink)  
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Brussels: “On ne passe pas!”

London: “Mon centre cède, impossible de me mouvoir, situation excellente, j'attaque."
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:47
  #5810 (permalink)  
 
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Methinks little more than a pause Sally, but your the expert
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:55
  #5811 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hyperdark View Post
Methinks little more than a pause Sally, but your(sic) the expert
Having lost relatives in both world wars, I'm greatly comforted that the central European nations have been at peace for over 70 years - something of a record I believe.

I don't foresee WW3 starting within Europe. Do you wish for something different?
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:17
  #5812 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Having lost relatives in both world wars, I'm greatly comforted that the central European nations have been at peace for over 70 years - something of a record I believe.

I don't foresee WW3 starting within Europe. Do you wish for something different?
[color=left=#545454]Croatia, Romania, Serbia and Slovenia are also sometimes considered part of [/color]Central Europe[color=left=#545454].
Sure? . .[/color]
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:25
  #5813 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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ROFL........

https://order-order.com/2019/03/07/l...ed-way-wanted/

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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:26
  #5814 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Sure? . .
You know very well what I meant. Those were not EU members fighting.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:42
  #5815 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
During the seemingly never ending arguing over this bloody "Backstop", we see an endless stream of UK politicians going to Brussels and saying words to the effect of "Tell, you what. How about we modify that part of the agreement with xxx". And the response seems to unfailingly be "No we won't accept that". This morning I heard a French politician on the Today programme blathering on about what must or must not happen in this regard. To be honest, my subconscious brain filtered out a lot of what she was saying. After all, isn't the UK government negotiating with the EU, not France? She got up my nose somewhat when she began pontificating on how it is the EU's job to ensure the Good Friday agreement was preserved. And there was I, thinking that was a bilateral agreement between the UK and Ireland! It then occurred to me, that we constantly read of EU rebuffs of UK suggestions of a suitable modification of the Backstop arrangement with the comment being made, more than once, that the UK must offer alternatives, must state their objectives etc but I can not recall reading, even once, of suggestions or ideas being put forward by the EU. The stance of the EU is to stonewall the UK entirely with a constant drone of "No" while not offering anything remotely positive. I thought a negotiation usually involved at least 2 parties putting forward ideas/demands with each party successively modifying their demands, creeping closer to the stance of the other party. With both sides doing that, eventually, a compromise is reached. If the EU has nothing to offer in the way of a compromise, even one that may be rejected by the UK, then it is obvious they are not really negotiating at all. If that is the EU's idea of negotiating then small wonder they have spent the last thousand years squabbling and fighting with each other.

Every time, the same babbling childlike pantomime of blame. Foreign powers. Domestic critics. But never even a glimmer of recognition that it's going wrong because it's a crap idea and they pursued it like morons.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:54
  #5816 (permalink)  
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I think it's called the "domino effect "....here's Amber duly following Karen with Andrea helping to swell the numbers,,,,

And of course, there's nothing at all even remotely connected to Brexit and Primark offering a nice democratic ultimatum to some staff at Reading....,,and somewhere called Dublin

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-her-coloured
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:56
  #5817 (permalink)  
 
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Parapunter: A bog standard, ill thought out, vitriolic response from you! Read my post again. I was neither blaming nor supporting either side. I was pointing out what I believe is, from what I see and read in the media, an inconsistency in the EU's attitude. They constantly demand the UK government (of whom I am not a fan) provide "suggestions" while offering none themselves.
Now, either point out where was the error in my argument or shut up, preferably after apologising.
Your response, while to be expected, is a tour de force in your stupid, one-eyed panoply of insults.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:57
  #5818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
You may not have noticed, but that thousand years [...squabbling and fighting with each other...] ended with the formation of the EEC, now the EU. Not a bad achievement, eh?
Correction: It ended with the formation of NATO. Nowt to do with that 'EU thingie'.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:59
  #5819 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
You may not have noticed, but that thousand years ended with the formation of the EEC, now the EU. Not a bad achievement, eh?
I'm one of the many, many millions who credit NATO for the lack of conflict - although I must agree with you that there are millions who do mistakenly credit the EEC because it suits their agenda.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 17:00
  #5820 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
You know very well what I meant. Those were not EU members fighting each other.
Strictly, no, the Dutch certainly thought so. What we actually had was NATO forces countering the Balkan States. Whilst the cold war was not that cold all the time it was NATO and USSR that preserved the peace for 70 years not the EU and its prior economic agreements.
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