Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 6th Mar 2019, 20:28
  #5781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 53
Posts: 0
Orac you have it right. It also gets vat levied as well.

Which means a hard border would be required still between Ireland and NI just as there is between Norway and Sweden.

Products from Canada couldn't come in zero tariffs into Rotterdam clear import customs and then get shipped straight to UK. They would be liable for vat and tariffs entering UK plus inspection. Same product from say Sweden would automatically be presumed to comply with standards, it's eea produce cert would allow it zero tariffs but again vat would be extracted.

uk could import as much sugar cane as it likes at WTO tariffs and produce all its own sugar and not charge the elevated EU tariff in place to protect the sugar beat farmers. As the UK uses the bulk of the sugar produced in the EU from sugar beat it would decimate beat production in main land europe.

Long way of saying it would be unacceptable from a backstop pov and also escape from customs Union to the EU so it's a bit of a pie in the sky idea.

tescoapp is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 21:05
  #5782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 53
Posts: 0
Para single market EEA member iaka Norway is different to being part of the customs Union like EU members who are part of both.




tescoapp is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 21:46
  #5783 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,487
As the UK uses the bulk of the sugar produced in the EU from sugar beat it would decimate beat production in main land europe.
One problem with the EU was high value chasing monoculture. An example would be rape. One country producing more than it needs for local market but able to supply other EU markets. The UK lamb production is a case in point. Much land capable of lamb production is less or unsuitable for other crops. UK wine production has probably displaced another crop.

Sugar beet, as Tesco observed is imported from the EU. Sugar beet was a major product in Lincolnshire but was displaced to Europe.

It will take time for farmers to rebalance their production.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 22:00
  #5784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 64
Pontius Navigator:
One problem with the EU was high value chasing monoculture. An example would be rape. One country producing more than it needs for local market but able to supply other EU markets. The UK lamb production is a case in point. Much land capable of lamb production is less or unsuitable for other crops. UK wine production has probably displaced another crop.
What you are describing is the specialization which free trade (or customs union + Single Market) generally brings about and which has long been realised as mutually beneficial. This has been a basic feature of British trade policy since the abolition of the Corn Laws in the 1840s. Now it appears that all this is to be undone in the age of Trump and Brexit. That's progress!
Economics101 is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 22:03
  #5785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
One problem with the EU was high value chasing monoculture. An example would be rape. One country producing more than it needs for local market but able to supply other EU markets. The UK lamb production is a case in point. Much land capable of lamb production is less or unsuitable for other crops. UK wine production has probably displaced another crop.

Sugar beet, as Tesco observed is imported from the EU. Sugar beet was a major product in Lincolnshire but was displaced to Europe.

It will take time for farmers to rebalance their production.
Sugar beet is still a huge crop in Lincolnshire and Norfolk. 8,000 tonnes a year.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 22:11
  #5786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 53
Posts: 0
There is a collosal sugar cane refinery on the Thames which is operating at a fraction of its capacity due to the amount of cane the UK can import at a normal tariff before the protective tariff kicks in.

Which is the objection in the WTO UK and EU want to split the allocation. The EU doesn't want a single stick of it never mind half the allocation. The UK pretty much takes the whole allocation now. If it didn't have to apply the protective tariff the factory could ramp up to full production and no more imports of beat from EU. Using the beat for bio fuel is worth about a third as it is for sugar.

Other countries want the full allocation in both EU and UK.

And owners of said sugar refinery on the Thames is on my list for post exit investment after the 29th.
tescoapp is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 23:23
  #5787 (permalink)  
EstŠ servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 7,046
Never mind, the East Anglian sugar beet industry will soon fill the gap which is probably more than can be said for Broadland Council or Norfolk CC and the potholes caused by the marauding tractors, trailers and trucks that thunder down the most bucolic of lanes in the freezing mud, sleet and wind of an English winter in Nelson's county.
cavortingcheetah is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 01:52
  #5788 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 62
Posts: 1
An interesting fact is that sugar beet has a higher sugar content than sugar cane weight for weight. This state of affairs came about through selective breeding of crops in the last one hundred years rather than through laboratory genetic engineering, but the results are impressive.

With a little over three weeks to go until Brexit, there has been no progress made in negotiations between the UK and the EU. Theresa May's deal will be rejected by at least 100 votes next week. It is too late to call a General Election before Brexit and the EU will not grant an extension to Article 50 because nothing meaningful will change in the disagreement over treaty terms between the UK and the EU. In any case, after next week, there will not be enough time to convene a meeting to get the agreement of all other EU members for an extension of Article 50.

Hard Brexit is a virtual certainty at this point. At least this will give the stability that businesses have been demanding.

In the meantime a few more kids will pay the ultimate price of policing on the cheap on the streets of the UK, keeping Brexit off the front pages until it is all over.
G0ULI is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 05:51
  #5789 (permalink)  
EstŠ servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 7,046
On the present pathways on offer, there's a really good chance that Britain will become completely subservient to the EU hegemonic dictatorship. Once that happens, it is inevitable that, at some time in the future, there will be a disintegration into the turmoil of civil unrest. By the time that happens of course, the European army will be up running well and it will be sent into Britain to keep the peace and permit no deviation from the path of European empire compliance. On the whole, Europeans are not as tolerant to the excesses of youth as are the British and they are much more inclined to use the appropriate force of strength in order to restore order and literally stamp the policies of their masters upon the populace. In such a future scenario, knife wielders will probably be shot on sight with the possession of any blade longer than 2.54 cm made a crime worthy of at least a long jail sentence.
The UK may therefore look forward to an eventual period of knife freedom as a result of the collapse of parliamentary democracy and the occupation by troops of a foreign power masquerading as allies directed from a foreign capital by unelected officers. Talk about fair trade, here comes a banana from the Sudetenland?
cavortingcheetah is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 06:16
  #5790 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 903
It's always nice when a Minister demonstrates why being incapable is a pre-requisite for promotion under Treeza.

Karen, some may recall, after her appointment thoughtfully admitted she was probably the only person in the UK who wasn't really aware of N.I,politics......which takes some doing....but, now firmly established in her post, has decided to continue with her blissful ignorance of matters from the past in the Province. ......not, as yet, nominated to replace Treeza, but certainly has the potential.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47471469
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 06:45
  #5791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 66
Posts: 58
Interesting point made by Gouli. Mrs EM and myself were only saying yesterday that knife crime, an ongoing pseudo-news story, has been deliberately wheeled out to sideline Brexit from our screens at this crucial point. Theresa still running down the clock. This isn't going to end well.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 07:06
  #5792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere flat
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Sugar beet is still a huge crop in Lincolnshire and Norfolk. 8,000 tonnes a year.
Fake news, 'tis a bit more than that. For 2017 - 2018,

https://www.britishsugar.co.uk/media...-record-yields

goofer3 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 07:34
  #5793 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 65
Posts: 9,686
ORAC is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:00
  #5794 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,595
Hard Brexit is a virtual certainty at this point. At least this will give the stability that businesses have been demanding.
Do you honestly believe what you have written. Sure, it will mean that UK industry will know where it stands. But they will also know that that is fair and square in the sh1t. Some stability!

I would say a better term would be abject stupidity for the government to allow that outcome on the back of a flawed referendum (not outcome) from nearly 3 years ago. Government are there to lead, not to be lead.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:18
  #5795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
American owned Tate & Lyle buy their cane from around the world to process in an elderly facility in Silvertown, not necessarily the most enticing industrial set up in a developed economy & moreover a very high priced city. EU Tariffs at e339/ton over allocated quotas from for example, Brazil, are designed to stop cane dumping, undermining native producers such as UK owned British Sugar who source practically all their beet from East Anglian farmers. Both wish to sell their products tariff free, one, wishes to maintain tariffs of imports to protect its business, which you could easily argue is a form of hypocrisy, while the other wishes to abolish them for the same purpose. As ever, the picture is more nuanced than your average slash & burn brexiteer would have you believe.
Parapunter is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:21
  #5796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,164
Fun and games continue...as Politico and I thought everybody else pretty much understood it, a loss for the Government on Tuesday results in two more crucial votes...

Theresa May is staring down the barrel of another heavy Brexit deal defeat next week after what looks to have been a disastrous summit between the two negotiating teams Tuesday night. With five days to go until the next meaningful vote, there is currently zero sign of the backstop breakthrough Downing Street urgently needs to convince Euroskeptic Tory MPs to support the deal. Today’s Telegraph splash warns Cabinet ministers now expect the government to lose by between 60 and 100 votes next week, which — while better than January’s historic 230-vote loss — would still represent a crushing defeat. Crucially, it would also clear the way for parliament to reject no deal in a vote the following night, and then to order the PM to seek a delay to Article 50 the day after that.
However a few hours ago Christopher Hope (Daily Telegraph political correspondent) tweeted this:

<<Latest rumour: Theresa May could pull the vote on 'no deal' on Wednesday and to extend Brexit on Thursday if she narrowly loses the meaningful vote on Tuesday, MPs say. A draft plan for low key debates has been drafted by officials for Wednesday and Thursday if votes are pulled.>>

So if TM doesn't get her way with the first vote rumour has it she thinks she has the authority to unilaterally "pull" the next two votes..

FWIW Yvette Cooper has responded..

<<Downing Street had better deny this pretty quickly. The amendment we voted for 502-20 last week wasn’t conditional. They need to stop playing games when manufacturing jobs, medicine supplies & security cooperation are all at stake if we drift into chaotic No Deal>>


This is all about democracy.?...Right?...
wiggy is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:32
  #5797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by goofer3 View Post
Fake news, 'tis a bit more than that. For 2017 - 2018,

https://www.britishsugar.co.uk/media...-record-yields
Why fake news? The figure I quoted came from the front page of the same website.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:34
  #5798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Interesting point made by Gouli. Mrs EM and myself were only saying yesterday that knife crime, an ongoing pseudo-news story, has been deliberately wheeled out to sideline Brexit from our screens at this crucial point. Theresa still running down the clock. This isn't going to end well.
The awful irony is that increased poverty caused by Brexit will only increase violent crimes.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:57
  #5799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,595
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Fun and games continue...as Politico and I thought everybody else pretty much understood it, a loss for the Government on Tuesday results in two more crucial votes...



However a few hours ago Christopher Hope (Daily Telegraph political correspondent) tweeted this:

<<Latest rumour: Theresa May could pull the vote on 'no deal' on Wednesday and to extend Brexit on Thursday if she narrowly loses the meaningful vote on Tuesday, MPs say. A draft plan for low key debates has been drafted by officials for Wednesday and Thursday if votes are pulled.>>

So if TM doesn't get her way with the first vote rumour has it she thinks she has the authority to unilaterally "pull" the next two votes..

FWIW Yvette Cooper has responded..

<<Downing Street had better deny this pretty quickly. The amendment we voted for 502-20 last week wasn’t conditional. They need to stop playing games when manufacturing jobs, medicine supplies & security cooperation are all at stake if we drift into chaotic No Deal>>


This is all about democracy.?...Right?...
If she dares do that then, were there such a mechanism in the UK, she should quite rightly be impeached. The way in which she is handling the Brexit process is reckless in the extreme, and allegedly ignoring the wishes of parliament in such a brazen way is just unbelievable. if she were to take this rumoured route the "Tiggers" numbers may well swell further, and rather quickly.

Even Corbyn is starting to look a better bet than this lying, scheming woman and her ERG / DUP cronies. I never thought I would consider such a thing, Corbyn being the incompetent that he is, but he may so far as Brexit is concerned be perhaps a little less incompetent than May.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 09:02
  #5800 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 65
Posts: 9,686
If she dares do that then, were there such a mechanism in the UK, she should quite rightly be impeached.
Itís called a vote of no confidence. All that has to happen is for the Leader of the Opposition to ask for one.
ORAC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.