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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 7th Mar 2019, 07:06
  #5781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Sugar beet is still a huge crop in Lincolnshire and Norfolk. 8,000 tonnes a year.
Fake news, 'tis a bit more than that. For 2017 - 2018,

https://www.britishsugar.co.uk/media...-record-yields

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Old 7th Mar 2019, 07:34
  #5782 (permalink)  
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:00
  #5783 (permalink)  
 
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Hard Brexit is a virtual certainty at this point. At least this will give the stability that businesses have been demanding.
Do you honestly believe what you have written. Sure, it will mean that UK industry will know where it stands. But they will also know that that is fair and square in the sh1t. Some stability!

I would say a better term would be abject stupidity for the government to allow that outcome on the back of a flawed referendum (not outcome) from nearly 3 years ago. Government are there to lead, not to be lead.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:18
  #5784 (permalink)  
 
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American owned Tate & Lyle buy their cane from around the world to process in an elderly facility in Silvertown, not necessarily the most enticing industrial set up in a developed economy & moreover a very high priced city. EU Tariffs at e339/ton over allocated quotas from for example, Brazil, are designed to stop cane dumping, undermining native producers such as UK owned British Sugar who source practically all their beet from East Anglian farmers. Both wish to sell their products tariff free, one, wishes to maintain tariffs of imports to protect its business, which you could easily argue is a form of hypocrisy, while the other wishes to abolish them for the same purpose. As ever, the picture is more nuanced than your average slash & burn brexiteer would have you believe.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:21
  #5785 (permalink)  
 
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Fun and games continue...as Politico and I thought everybody else pretty much understood it, a loss for the Government on Tuesday results in two more crucial votes...

Theresa May is staring down the barrel of another heavy Brexit deal defeat next week after what looks to have been a disastrous summit between the two negotiating teams Tuesday night. With five days to go until the next meaningful vote, there is currently zero sign of the backstop breakthrough Downing Street urgently needs to convince Euroskeptic Tory MPs to support the deal. Today’s Telegraph splash warns Cabinet ministers now expect the government to lose by between 60 and 100 votes next week, which — while better than January’s historic 230-vote loss — would still represent a crushing defeat. Crucially, it would also clear the way for parliament to reject no deal in a vote the following night, and then to order the PM to seek a delay to Article 50 the day after that.
However a few hours ago Christopher Hope (Daily Telegraph political correspondent) tweeted this:

<<Latest rumour: Theresa May could pull the vote on 'no deal' on Wednesday and to extend Brexit on Thursday if she narrowly loses the meaningful vote on Tuesday, MPs say. A draft plan for low key debates has been drafted by officials for Wednesday and Thursday if votes are pulled.>>

So if TM doesn't get her way with the first vote rumour has it she thinks she has the authority to unilaterally "pull" the next two votes..

FWIW Yvette Cooper has responded..

<<Downing Street had better deny this pretty quickly. The amendment we voted for 502-20 last week wasn’t conditional. They need to stop playing games when manufacturing jobs, medicine supplies & security cooperation are all at stake if we drift into chaotic No Deal>>


This is all about democracy.?...Right?...
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:32
  #5786 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by goofer3 View Post
Fake news, 'tis a bit more than that. For 2017 - 2018,

https://www.britishsugar.co.uk/media...-record-yields
Why fake news? The figure I quoted came from the front page of the same website.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:34
  #5787 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Interesting point made by Gouli. Mrs EM and myself were only saying yesterday that knife crime, an ongoing pseudo-news story, has been deliberately wheeled out to sideline Brexit from our screens at this crucial point. Theresa still running down the clock. This isn't going to end well.
The awful irony is that increased poverty caused by Brexit will only increase violent crimes.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:57
  #5788 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Fun and games continue...as Politico and I thought everybody else pretty much understood it, a loss for the Government on Tuesday results in two more crucial votes...



However a few hours ago Christopher Hope (Daily Telegraph political correspondent) tweeted this:

<<Latest rumour: Theresa May could pull the vote on 'no deal' on Wednesday and to extend Brexit on Thursday if she narrowly loses the meaningful vote on Tuesday, MPs say. A draft plan for low key debates has been drafted by officials for Wednesday and Thursday if votes are pulled.>>

So if TM doesn't get her way with the first vote rumour has it she thinks she has the authority to unilaterally "pull" the next two votes..

FWIW Yvette Cooper has responded..

<<Downing Street had better deny this pretty quickly. The amendment we voted for 502-20 last week wasn’t conditional. They need to stop playing games when manufacturing jobs, medicine supplies & security cooperation are all at stake if we drift into chaotic No Deal>>


This is all about democracy.?...Right?...
If she dares do that then, were there such a mechanism in the UK, she should quite rightly be impeached. The way in which she is handling the Brexit process is reckless in the extreme, and allegedly ignoring the wishes of parliament in such a brazen way is just unbelievable. if she were to take this rumoured route the "Tiggers" numbers may well swell further, and rather quickly.

Even Corbyn is starting to look a better bet than this lying, scheming woman and her ERG / DUP cronies. I never thought I would consider such a thing, Corbyn being the incompetent that he is, but he may so far as Brexit is concerned be perhaps a little less incompetent than May.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 09:02
  #5789 (permalink)  
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If she dares do that then, were there such a mechanism in the UK, she should quite rightly be impeached.
It’s called a vote of no confidence. All that has to happen is for the Leader of the Opposition to ask for one.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 09:11
  #5790 (permalink)  
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 09:24
  #5791 (permalink)  
 
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Good for him. In the absence of a government, I'm pleased someone has the gumption to act & on the bright side, it's preferable to an ex. foreign secretary cavorting about with Steve Bannon, or the largest leave donor larging it up with Ambassador Yakovenko to a much larger extent than has ever been publicly admitted - with thanks to Carole Cadwalladr for doggedly pursuing the facts.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 09:30
  #5792 (permalink)  
 
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meanwhile Labours problems get worse

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47482048
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 12:21
  #5793 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Do you honestly believe what you have written. Sure, it will mean that UK industry will know where it stands. But they will also know that that is fair and square in the sh1t. Some stability!

I would say a better term would be abject stupidity for the government to allow that outcome on the back of a flawed referendum (not outcome) from nearly 3 years ago. Government are there to lead, not to be lead.
The government is elected by the people to represent their interests and in the interests of efficiency provide a common point of contact in negotiations, trade deals, or the resolution of disputes. To suggest that once elected to office, government officials are free to pursue their personal ideologies is tantamount to admitting we are ruled by a dictatorship.

The "people" voted to leave the EU. It is up to the government to make this happen. Both major parties agreed to support leaving the EU as part of the manifestos on which they campaigned and were elected. Defying the will of the electorate is a short step away from serious civil unrest and/or violence as people lose any faith or trust in their elected representatives.

The UK is governed and policed by consent, not by the presence of an armed militia patrolling the streets. That is an unusual system of governance in the modern world and noteworthy because most of the time it works remarkably well.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 13:35
  #5794 (permalink)  
 
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Cambridge City Council is advertising that EU27 citizens can still vote in the UK local elections this May. I asked for the legal basis for this advice and they said:

"Hi Tim. Section 2(c) of the Representation of the People Act 1983 (as amended), which allows EU citizens to vote in local elections in the UK, has not been repealed and remains in force for local elections on 2 May 2019. Thanks, AM"

I wonder how many other dozens (or hundreds (or thousands)) of loose ends there will be, how many years it will take to tidy them all up, and what bizarre anomalies will remain in force in the meantime?

Letting foreigners continue to vote on how the UK is run whilst giving up UK citizens' vote on how the EU is run is obviously what's called "taking back control".
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 13:39
  #5795 (permalink)  
 
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Gouli, The vote indeed was to leave the Eu. To say that ‘the people’ voted for a hard Brexit and dropping out of our entire trading arrangements with the EU is an extremist view of leaving. I agree that it is up to the Government to make Brexit happen, but not in the utterly mismanaged and chaotic manner we currently have.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 13:58
  #5796 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zoigberg View Post
Gouli, The vote indeed was to leave the Eu. To say that ‘the people’ voted for a hard Brexit and dropping out of our entire trading arrangements with the EU is an extremist view of leaving. I agree that it is up to the Government to make Brexit happen, but not in the utterly mismanaged and chaotic manner we currently have.
I don't really know why Gouli bothers with this high-minded verbiage. In a democracy, people are entitled to change their minds when circumstances change. That's why we have regular elections. And the Brexit circumstances have most certainly changed from the promises of £350 million that could be spent on the NHS, and the easiest trade deal in history. That's what the voters were expecting at the time.

In any case I don't know what he's worried about - we are leaving the EU so he's got his wish. Much may he enjoy the result!
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 14:14
  #5797 (permalink)  
 
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Sally, with respect the people haven't been asked whether their minds have changed - your faction obviously haven't.

Since the vote there have been two wars in progress

1) between the UK and the EU who have been determined to prevent the UK leaving in any meaningful way.

2) Within the UK between those who voted to leave, and the faction who are determined to frustrate a democratic vote.

I know you sincerely believe you are on the right side. I'm not sure what it will mean for the future of the UK as we know it.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 14:30
  #5798 (permalink)  
 
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I'm flabbergasted to see that after all this time, people still think the EU is attempting to thwart our departure.

Exhibit 659: Geoffrey Cox tells EU officials the backstop is a threat to the human rights of Northern Irish citizens. The same backstop that Theresa May proposed. After nearly three years, things are literally at this level of madness now, yet the narrative that obstruction is all on the EU persists. Flabbergasted.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 14:38
  #5799 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
Sally, with respect the people haven't been asked whether their minds have changed - your faction obviously haven't.

1) between the UK and the EU who have been determined to prevent the UK leaving in any meaningful way.
Where do you get that idea from? The EU cannot possibly prevent us from leaving. I'm sure they would like us to stay, but we gave notice to leave and will do so on March 29th. That's all there is to it. If you don't believe me, ask Gouli.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:17
  #5800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
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From the British Broadcasting Corporation's News website, "Business Live":

Posted at 14:3214:32
Pound falls as Brexit negotiations continue





However, the GBP (Pound) vs the EUR (Euro) today:





Maybe those 'Brexit negotiations' aren't going that badly for Britain after all?

But the the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Corporation?) might be wanting to tell you something different?
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