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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 27th Feb 2019, 13:39
  #5441 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
To the best of my recollection the leaflet said something along the lines of 'over x years the average household would be worse off to the tune of 4300 in comparison to how they would fare over the same period should the vote be to remain' or words to that effect. I've used x instead of a number because the treasury prediction ob which the claim was based was over something like 10-15 years.
I'll accept your wording because I and the rest of our road never received the leaflet.

But people were also told by the Brexit crew that such predictions were all Project Fear and that in fact we would be 350 million a week better off.

It's no good the likes of you or gouli saying now that people were warned, when they were told to ignore those same warnings before the referendum.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 13:51
  #5442 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'll accept your wording because I and the rest of our road never received the leaflet.

But people were also told by the Brexit crew that such predictions were all Project Fear and that in fact we would be 350 million a week better off.

It's no good the likes of you or gouli saying now that people were warned, when they were told to ignore those same warnings before the referendum.
I shall have to accept that neither you, nor your neighbours received one of the most publicised government leafleting drops, exceeding that of the AIDS media campaign of the early eighties. It is what it is. I believe, before long, that the 2016 decision will be overturned, this country will be the weaker for it.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 14:59
  #5443 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
I shall have to accept that neither you, nor your neighbours received one of the most publicised government leafleting drops, exceeding that of the AIDS media campaign of the early eighties. It is what it is. I believe, before long, that the 2016 decision will be overturned, this country will be the weaker for it.
The whole point is that a clear decision was reached to leave the EU. Unless and until that happens we (the UK) cannot move forward. If we remain in the EU, then the government will have effectively ignored the result of the largest poll and turnout in UK electoral history. One can only guess at the long term repercusssions for our currently serving politicians and any respect for UK politics in general. At a minimum I would predict a fragmentation of the major parties and a sharp rise in extreme left and right wing movements.

Once we have left the EU, then consideration can be given to negotiating a return at some point in the future.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:05
  #5444 (permalink)  
 
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Or a non binding, advisory referendum riddled with financial fraud & foreign interference, leading to several criminal convictions & ongoing investigations has seriously undermined democracy itself & should be voided.

See? You can paint the same picture in different ways.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:13
  #5445 (permalink)  
 
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Do keep up at the back.
No doubt your approach at Board meetings.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:22
  #5446 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Or a non binding, advisory referendum riddled with financial fraud & foreign interference, leading to several criminal convictions & ongoing investigations has seriously undermined democracy itself & should be voided.

See? You can paint the same picture in different ways.
Non binding yes, but the government, and in subsequent elections the two major parties, promised to adhere to the result. You may continue to accuse them of fraud, but at no point has the result been seriously questioned, hence no offer of a rerun.

Conspiracy theorists will have to start looking elsewhere.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:30
  #5447 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jindabyne View Post
No doubt your approach at Board meetings.
Waspish. Very waspish. Not my fault you are unaware of widely reported remarks made by the prime minister.

Perhaps if you're struggling to keep up with current affairs, you should reconsider your participation in this discussion.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:40
  #5448 (permalink)  
 
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Talking of not being able to keep up with events, no one is accusing any party of fraud in the referendum. The various leave campaigns, yes. A 20 year old student, Darren Grimes habded 625,000 days before the vote? Yes.. Arron Banks making the single largest political donation in history? Yes. Failing to account for the source of that money? Yes.

Various shadowy data firms funded by rigjr wing billionaires including Robert Mercer targeting social media floating voters? Yes.

But sure, conspiracy theories. Noncense...

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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:47
  #5449 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Both of those are direct quotes from the current Prime Minister. Do keep up at the back.
Thank you, context is everything.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:50
  #5450 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not actively involved in this 'discussion' parapunter. Largely because of your rude, ignorant and intolerant inputs. But that said, this is JB after all - a highly suitable platform for the like of yourself.

No implied offence to others.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:57
  #5451 (permalink)  
 
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Wonder where the remain grammar and spelling lecturers are, or do they only correct those posts that are perceived, or known, to be by exit voters.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:01
  #5452 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post

Various shadowy data firms funded by rigjr wing billionaires including Robert Mercer targeting social media floating voters? Yes.

But sure, conspiracy theories. Noncense...
I can almost see you frothing at the mouth. Are you suggesting Mr Mercer committed a criminal act?
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:07
  #5453 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Wonder where the remain grammar and spelling lecturers are, or do they only correct those posts that are perceived, or known, to be by exit voters.
Examples please.

We know of Tescoapp, which remainers are in need of 6 of the best 😀
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:15
  #5454 (permalink)  
 
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#5448 & #5423, there are others but even that would be nit picking to a greater extent than the usual noted errors.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:28
  #5455 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
#5448 & #5423, there are others but even that would be nit picking to a greater extent than the usual noted errors.
Agree but not worth the effort 😁
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:28
  #5456 (permalink)  
 
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Dear me!
Is this page sponsored or even hosted by Charles Dodgson? Whatever, it can provide interesting reading, providing one doesn't take anything too seriously.
Re the alleged hurt over the use of the term 'nonce'; I was surprised a few years ago when I heard this used to describe a sexual predator. I had known the term for a long while before this but it was always used in the sense of a silly (maybe even stupid) person.
As for the non-delivery of the Referendum info flyers, delivered to every household in the UK, I was pleased to see I am not the only person still waiting for theirs! And I would not blame the postmen, rather the incompetent idiots either at Westminster or their particular favourite "contractor" at the time.
Parapunter has hit a nail partially on the head here:
Or a non binding, advisory referendum
. There are those who believe the UK population decided we must get out of the EU. The preceding quote gives the lie to that. I thought it was Parliament that decided we had to leave. They could have approached the results of the referendum in a different way but they chose to disregard the terms "advisory" & "non-binding", presumably to suit various political purposes. Thinking back to the time of the "Leave or Remain" hysteria, I can remember quite clearly the red bus and its slogans but I can't remember a similar campaign from the Remain side. Was there something similar from them?
My objections to the EU were my dislike of being part of a Federal State, which, despite protestations to the contrary, the EU certainly is. And I also din't like the idea of being ruled by 4 Presidents, none of which I elected. I wonder how many people have realised this? No fewer than 4 Presidents at any one time! What kind of circus requires so many? I could quite comfortably live with some of the EU rules, such as free trade. It has to be governed somehow to stop the chancers dumping crap on the member countries or manufacturers setting up operations somewhere "poor" and paying the workers 2 ollies and a frog to produce their goods. And free movement of people between the member states is something else I was quite happy about. It seems to have worked fine between UK & Ireland since the 1920s. But then, they didn't have the over ambitious cowboy named Varadkar back then!
On the distaff side, we have this great migration of the European Parliament every month from Brussels to Strasbourg. I wonder what this costs Mr & Mrs tax payer each year? Not to mention the idea that at least a part of the European Parliament resides in Luxembourg. I wouldn't object to the Parliament having departments based in different countries/cities but having a "roaming" Parliament?
4 bloody Presidents indeed!
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:34
  #5457 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jindabyne View Post
No doubt your approach at Board meetings.
I used to get incredibly bored at meetings.....especially those involving the military in more recent times.



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Old 27th Feb 2019, 17:42
  #5458 (permalink)  
 
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It demonstrates the sheer fanaticism of Leavers that they are prepared to pay money to leave. My brother and his wife share this fanaticism. They can't explain it in logical terms it's just a feeling that they have. I would be prepared to pay a small price to remain, but only an amount that represented any advantage in terms of travel within the EU.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 17:48
  #5459 (permalink)  
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EM, I think you're right and probably many leavers would actually like to retain parts of our membership.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 18:17
  #5460 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
EM, I think you're right and probably many leavers would actually like to retain parts of our membership.
Most of the people I know in my local (very non-representative sample, mainly farmers and ex-service people) voted to leave. I'd guess that pretty much all of them support the idea of a common market. The reason many chose to vote to leave was creeping federalism, and the removal of governance from Westminster to Brussels. Lots of anecdotes (probably many with little factual basis) to reinforce their views. Most have no confidence in our government. None seem to support Theresa May (despite this being a constituency where you could pin a blue rosette on a chimpanzee and it would get elected). Most (probably all) don't trust the EU at all, and believe that it's an undemocratic gravy train supported by corruption (not a view I share, my view is that it's typical of all large, uncontrolled, bureaucracies, a big self-licking lollipop).
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