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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 27th Feb 2019, 09:53
  #5421 (permalink)  
 
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I certainly voted to leave in the knowledge that in the short term I would be worse off.

I will be especially worse off if the EU goes tits up as I predict.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:04
  #5422 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
What is factually incorrect ?

I'm not crowing over the Referendum result, just a suggestion of how the result that night and subsequent unaccounted for sources of finance on the leave side & several convictions & ongoing NCA investigations might explain your demeanour....

If you had read my posts the past ten years or so, you'd know I am not a BREXIT supporter....I am, however, one of the many millions who want an end to the EU and a return to a simple Free Trade Area for Europe. We all hoped the UK would succeed in showing that anyone can stand up to and leave a Protection Racket if they're brave enough, although it now seems we're going to see yet another re-run of the way the EU and its fanatical, political supporters p*ss on democracy.

If Harley Quin knew the meaning of what he said, then not good....But I must admit that I've never heard the word before and had to Google, or maybe it's because it's a common insult to use in English that I hadn't picked up on....
Amazing how many people with anti EU records as long as your arm claim not to support Brexit. Must be an expat Le Shy Tory thing. And even more amazing how many post goading provocation & express wide eyed indignation when it's noted by the intended target. This post is brought to you by the words disingenuous & charade.

On to business.

Since no one, least of all HMG knew what the outcome of this would be, then this:

Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
I certainly voted to leave in the knowledge that in the short term I would be worse off.
Cannot be true. As noted previously, every single balls up in this shameful farrago has been project fear until the moment it became an obvious consequence at which point it's shameless cheerleaders claim it's what they voted for all along.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:06
  #5423 (permalink)  
 
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Sure the Eu in terms of the Commission ahs its problems but after the last few months could anyone even remotely cosnider that our own parliament are capable of anyhting beetr.
They are just as inefficient , even more fanatically political and just as corrupt but not as effective in getting anyhting done.

Also why all the fuss about a second referendum not being democratic , if a general election was held in June 2016-close to THREE years ago with the government gettign a majority of about 12 no one would bat an eyelid if another election was to be held now. Trouble is of course in a referendum you can lie as much as you like and never be held accountable but that doesnt work in Government when you have to deliver something. The present situation is effectively a government who promised a lot and didnt deliver anything at all.

And why is the Eu such a bad idea, no one country in the Eu can stand up to USA China Russia Japan etc but the EU certainly can and does.

And whyare we so arrogant to think we only need to change the negotiator to get a better deal -who could we choose, Rees-Mogg , it would take the other side 5 years to stop laughing, Boris- he has a proven track record of incompetence and making bad situations even worse . Liam Fox-hasnt delivered anything of value at all in his trade negotiations, David Davis-tried and failed, Dominic Raab doent even understand simple geography and the Channel crossings -I suppose as he is a Czech and comes from the furthest country from a a sea in Europe that is acceptable LoL

However anything must be better than letting foreigners have even a modest influence over our lives even if its often to the good .
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:09
  #5424 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buster15 View Post
I don't believe that anybody who voted to leave voted to be worse off, both individually and as a country.
A leaflet distributed by the government to every household in the UK in advance of the Brexit referendum made the claim that leaving the EU would effectively cost each household the sum of £4,300. That was certainly in my mind when considering my decision and I decided that it was a price worth paying.

I cannot believe I was the only person to have read the leaflet among the 17+ million other leave voters. Had it been necessary to stump up the money in a lump sum immediately after the referendum result was announced, I would have been prepared to arrange a bank loan to pay up. That is the strength of my anti-EU sentiment.

Just to be absolutely clear, I have no animosity towards Europe generally, just the political machinations that go on within the EU. It is that political entity that I despise and the sooner we leave the EU, the better.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:11
  #5425 (permalink)  
 
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I have always said there is going to be a short term hit.

And I have always said that the EU will fail at some point. It's much better for the UK to be out first than have to deal with its demise along with the other's at the same time.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:18
  #5426 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE]every single balls up in this shameful farrago has been project fear [/QUOTE

Not so, of course. But mostly the reason as to why we are where we are.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:31
  #5427 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
I have always said there is going to be a short term hit.

And I have always said that the EU will fail at some point. It's much better for the UK to be out first than have to deal with its demise along with the other's at the same time.
Would you care to define "short term "......anywhere to the nearest decade will suffice ( with the caveat " subsequent recovery unlikely... if ever ".

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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:34
  #5428 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post

And I have always said that the EU will fail at some point.
Over a long enough period, the earth will be subsumed by the sun. The point isn't your endless one way predictions, it's the weaseling disingenuousness of the ever shifting position I object to. I knew I would be poorer & voted for it. No you didn't. To paraphrase the great Marcellus Wallace, that's ego, messing with you.

I would respect you hugely if you were capable of just a moment's honesty & candour & say I didn't appreciate all of the potential pitfalls of this but I remain certain it's the right thing for the country all the same, but no, you simply claim each twist & turn as something you already possessed foreknowledge of & had already priced in.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:52
  #5429 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post


A leaflet distributed by the government to every household in the UK in advance of the Brexit referendum made the claim that leaving the EU would effectively cost each household the sum of £4,300. That was certainly in my mind when considering my decision and I decided that it was a price worth paying.

I cannot believe I was the only person to have read the leaflet among the 17+ million other leave voters. Had it been necessary to stump up the money in a lump sum immediately after the referendum result was announced, I would have been prepared to arrange a bank loan to pay up. That is the strength of my anti-EU sentiment.

Just to be absolutely clear, I have no animosity towards Europe generally, just the political machinations that go on within the EU. It is that political entity that I despise and the sooner we leave the EU, the better.
Well jolly good for you chum

It so happens that there are quite a few people - possibly millions - who couldn't afford to pay that £4300 and who wouldn't be eligible for such a bank loan.

But you're OK. I'm so relieved to hear it.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 11:04
  #5430 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Over a long enough period, the earth will be subsumed by the sun. The point isn't your endless one way predictions, it's the weaseling disingenuousness of the ever shifting position I object to. I knew I would be poorer & voted for it. No you didn't. To paraphrase the great Marcellus Wallace, that's ego, messing with you.

I would respect you hugely if you were capable of just a moment's honesty & candour & say I didn't appreciate all of the potential pitfalls of this but I remain certain it's the right thing for the country all the same, but no, you simply claim each twist & turn as something you already possessed foreknowledge of & had already priced in.
As long as you continue to arrogantly insult and bully people your 'respect' is something I and many other Leave voters can happily live without. How can you say that people had not considered the effects of the vote, every household in the country was told in no uncertain terms in writing that they would suffer a 'loss' financially. Yet they still went out and voted to leave. You accuse people of running away but to be honest I think you're the one running scared.
Maybe you've spent too long in the van listening to LBC?
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 11:10
  #5431 (permalink)  
 
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A leaflet distributed by the government to every household in the UK in advance of the Brexit referendum made the claim that leaving the EU would effectively cost each household the sum of £4,300. That was certainly in my mind when considering my decision and I decided that it was a price worth paying.
I wish that was factually correct, however much as HMG might have wanted the leaflet delivered to every house it certainly wasn't. In my area, among others, brexiteer post people decided not to deliver the leaflet so many people did not have the benefit of the government's "wisdom".

Not suggesting it made any difference, but I wish our postman or woman was just as discerning when it comes to delivering other "junk mail" such as pizza leaflets and PPI circulars!!!
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 11:14
  #5432 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Well jolly good for you chum

It so happens that there are quite a few people - possibly millions - who couldn't afford to pay that £4300 and who wouldn't be eligible for such a bank loan.

But you're OK. I'm so relieved to hear it.
To the best of my recollection the leaflet said something along the lines of 'over x years the average household would be worse off to the tune of £4300 in comparison to how they would fare over the same period should the vote be to remain' or words to that effect. I've used x instead of a number because the treasury prediction ob which the claim was based was over something like 10-15 years. As most treasury departments around the world can't even predict accurately 12 months in the future there was some doubt over the accuracy of the claim. The real point though is irrespective of the outcome of the vote there is no financial certainty, other perhaps, than the EU will have to start bailing out its Southern members again soon. That the EU has tried and failed to impose reform against the background of increasing federalisation and harmony, now including taxation seems to me a fairly strong reason to say auf wiedersehn or ciao or whatever.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 11:18
  #5433 (permalink)  
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the X million who expressed no preference. They seem have become “non people” as far as some Brexiters are concerned, people to be completely ignored.
And why not? They had a chance to vote with many choosing to ignore the event.

Where I was many came out specifically to vote when they do not normally vote.

Personally I would go the Australian route of compulsory voting though the party that brings it in would probably get a kicking from disgruntled disinterested previous nonvoters.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 11:39
  #5434 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
As long as you continue to arrogantly insult and bully people your 'respect' is something I and many other Leave voters can happily live without. How can you say that people had not considered the effects of the vote, every household in the country was told in no uncertain terms in writing that they would suffer a 'loss' financially. Yet they still went out and voted to leave. You accuse people of running away but to be honest I think you're the one running scared.
Maybe you've spent too long in the van listening to LBC?
The brass neck. Until you apologise unreservedly for equating me with a paedophile sex offender, you're dead to me.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 11:43
  #5435 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
And why not? They had a chance to vote with many choosing to ignore the event.

Where I was many came out specifically to vote when they do not normally vote.

Personally I would go the Australian route of compulsory voting though the party that brings it in would probably get a kicking from disgruntled disinterested previous nonvoters.
All very well, but that does not resolve the fact that 16m engaged voters are not only left out in the cold, per fptp democracy but have subsequently been deleted from the ensuing political process by this government. Citizens of nowhere, queue jumpers and so on.

Any reasonable man on the Clapham omnibus would look at this whole thing & conclude it was a hiding to nothing for all but the most frothing of shire Tories & UKIP headbangers. The evidence is all around you, every day.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 13:06
  #5436 (permalink)  
 
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“Until you apologise...”. Oh get over yourself! While you’re waiting perhaps you’d explain why you called me a homosexual (“old fruit”) or the gratuitous “wet dream” comment. On second thoughts, don’t bother. Whining self-righteousness was never an attractive trait but especially so when coupled with your scornful disrespect for anyone who doesn’t share your opinions.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 13:07
  #5437 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
The brass neck. Until you apologise unreservedly for equating me with a paedophile sex offender, you're dead to me.
Try answering the points I have just raised instead of running away
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 13:19
  #5438 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“Until you apologise...”. Oh get over yourself! While you’re waiting perhaps you’d explain why you called me a homosexual (“old fruit”) or the gratuitous “wet dream” comment. On second thoughts, don’t bother. Whining self-righteousness was never an attractive trait but especially so when coupled with your scornful disrespect for anyone who doesn’t share your opinions.
Sure: I didn't. This just in hot on the heels of the last wrongful accusation you made.

Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
You've plucked that out of thin air my old fruity.

I'm not required to present a plan am I? I'm a member of the public, not a government minister.
More, doubtless as soon as you make it up.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 13:21
  #5439 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
All very well, but that does not resolve the fact that 16m engaged voters are not only left out in the cold, per fptp democracy but have subsequently been deleted from the ensuing political process by this government.
That is our democratic system. Happens every 5 years; for some of an opposite persuasion in a safe seat they never get their MP of choice.

Citizens of nowhere, queue jumpers and so on.
Once again we have a nonsense phrase. Care to explain this one as you didn't explain geriatric gardeners or some such.

Any reasonable man on the Clapham omnibus would look at this whole thing & conclude it was a hiding to nothing for all but the most frothing of shire Tories & UKIP headbangers. The evidence is all around you, every day.
Being reasonable I know that many labour voters up north voted out. How do you equate that with the shires?
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 13:36
  #5440 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
That is our democratic system. Happens every 5 years; for some of an opposite persuasion in a safe seat they never get their MP of choice.
It is a statement of fact, I'm not disputing that. I am & it should have been obvious, offering a critique of it in light of what has flowed from it in this instance.


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Once again we have a nonsense phrase. Care to explain this one as you didn't explain geriatric gardeners or some such.

Both of those are direct quotes from the current Prime Minister. Do keep up at the back.
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