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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 23rd Feb 2019, 10:17
  #5221 (permalink)  
 
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The devil is in the details. The only way that the British public can be sure they are not being stitched up by the EU or UK Government is for no deal Brexit to occur on the 29th of March. The referendum result was for the UK to leave the EU. Any deal that maintains links or controls to the EU becomes a form of Brexit in name only. That is completely unacceptable.

The UK has been forced to take and live with difficult decisions before. I have consistently maintained a position of supporting hard Brexit for the last two and a half years. I will maintain this stance until we are finally rid of the EU on the 29th of March.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 10:20
  #5222 (permalink)  
 
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Then you are an unthinking vandal in a huge minority.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 10:32
  #5223 (permalink)  
 
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Yes it is a huge minority that want what we want. But there is also a huge minority that want what you want. The there is the colossal majority in the middle that are fed up with the whole thing.

But to be honest our minority have everything stacked in their favour for getting what we want.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 11:56
  #5224 (permalink)  
 
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You can forward my details to the authorities as well Parapunter. Iím another unthinking vandal. And not in a huge minority. A majority of 52 to 48. What donít you understand about you losing?
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:01
  #5225 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bugged on the right View Post
You can forward my details to the authorities as well Parapunter. Iím another unthinking vandal. And not in a huge minority. A majority of 52 to 48. What donít you understand about you losing?
Where was no deal on the ballot? What don't you understand about shafting the country?
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:01
  #5226 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Yes it is a huge minority that want what we want. But there is also a huge minority that want what you want. The there is the colossal majority in the middle that are fed up with the whole thing.

But to be honest our minority have everything stacked in their favour for getting what we want.
That's correct, and it makes the outcome of any potential (if somewhat unlikely) new referendum extremely difficult to forecast, since the bulk of the population is switched off from Brexit and just want the government to "get on with it" and have little appetite for weighing up the consequences of either point of view.

Having just come back from 10 days away, I am staggered that MPs are still whittling on about alternative plans, with only 5 weeks to go. The nearer we get to 29th March the more crystalised the options are. There are now realistically only three; remain, May's agreement, or no deal. Why they believe the EU will agree to an extension to the Art. 50 deadline is beyond me. They've wasted too much time with the UK so far, and aren't going to give May 2 or 3 months more to carry on kicking her rusty, and no doubt very dented can down the road. Without her agreeing to modify or erase some of her red lines there's no point.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:22
  #5227 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Where was no deal on the ballot? What don't you understand about shafting the country?
Where was deal on the ballot?
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:24
  #5228 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by under_exposed View Post
Where was deal on the ballot?
So, as a patriot who wants the best for the Uk & not some cheap rhetorical question merchant, what's the solution? Oh and please link one piece of leave literature that promised to crash us out, impoverishing us en route. I can wait.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:45
  #5229 (permalink)  
 
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As a huge patriot I can see that keeping the current situation is not productive to the UK or EU.

I can also see that remaining after all that's occured and been said is also not an option.

Leaving the only solution which is leave on the day and get on with it.

I think any extension will be veto'd by at least one country anyway.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:58
  #5230 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
So, as a patriot who wants the best for the Uk & not some cheap rhetorical question merchant, what's the solution? Oh and please link one piece of leave literature that promised to crash us out, impoverishing us en route. I can wait.

You'll be waiting a long time, I'm afraid.

Strangely, it was Cameron who explained that a Leave vote would result in the UK crashing out ( tired cliche again - which I thought you didn't do ) of the Single Market without explaining what his own plans were for after that.

Assuming he and Osborne ever had a plan other than to resign, and Osborne didn't even have the decency to do that - he had to be fired !!

https://www.politico.eu/article/davi...equences-news/




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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:02
  #5231 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
The devil is in the details. The only way that the British public can be sure they are not being stitched up by the EU or UK Government is for no deal Brexit to occur on the 29th of March. The referendum result was for the UK to leave the EU. Any deal that maintains links or controls to the EU becomes a form of Brexit in name only. That is completely unacceptable.

The UK has been forced to take and live with difficult decisions before. I have consistently maintained a position of supporting hard Brexit for the last two and a half years. I will maintain this stance until we are finally rid of the EU on the 29th of March.
I find this post one of the most depressing I have read on this thread.

There are many people who would have been happy with a significant relaxing of our ties with the EU without going down the route we are appearing to be heading for. You are not one of them clearly, but to say that there is only one, pure, acceptable form of Brexit is simply not true.

No one has ever left a trading block of this size before, it would have been nice to seen it as a managed departure. What we have is chaos.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:06
  #5232 (permalink)  
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A lifelong student of psephology makes the statement, with which I do not disagree, that in 2017 most Labour voters thought that Jeremy Corbyn was a Remainer. This reminded me that I have long subscribed to the view that only income tax tax payers or, at the very least, those who file a tax return, should have the right to vote in a representative society. Such a psephological comment however raises the notion that there needs to be a minimum standard of political understanding required before a supposedly contributing member of society is allowed to cast their vote in anything other perhaps than the most local of elections. Whether this would be done through a national knowledge test prior to the granting of citizenship, with only citizens allowed to vote, or by some other egalitarian means, would be a topic for further discussion. In this regard Switzerland sets an example of interest. The point though is a serious enough one, for no one with a grain of political intelligence could ever believe that Corbyn has ever been anything but the most hostile to the EU, although not perhaps to a customs union. Membership of the EU, as Britain currently has it, is completely inimitable to Corbyn and his Marxist party's economic plans for Britain. A good citizen should be required to be sufficiently educated to be interpretive before he enters a polling booth even though I doubt that the Marxists, once in power, would with to extend to me the same freedom of education and choice as I would to them.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:18
  #5233 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
until we are finally rid of the EU on the 29th of March.
There won't be any "finally" about it - if we leave on 29 March the re-join campaign starts on 30 March. The only way it won't go on for 40 years like the "leave" campaign will be if it succeeds faster than that.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:24
  #5234 (permalink)  
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Would it, I wonder, go one were the empire across the channel to collapse this summer, mired at last in its economic excesses and restrictive practices? I suppose it would. How extraordinary if it did.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:28
  #5235 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
There won't be any "finally" about it - if we leave on 29 March the re-join campaign starts on 30 March. The only way it won't go on for 40 years like the "leave" campaign will be if it succeeds faster than that.
Instructive that Gouli thinks 29th March is the end of this. It's a fair observation that wisdom and age do not walk hand in hand.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:34
  #5236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
There won't be any "finally" about it - if we leave on 29 March the re-join campaign starts on 30 March. The only way it won't go on for 40 years like the "leave" campaign will be if it succeeds faster than that.
1. Re-join with no rebate, no opt-outs, probability of having to join the Eurozone, etc, etc.

2. What would be the chances of the other EU 27 (or, by then, will it be the other 26, or 25, or... ) unanimously voting to accept the UK back?
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:38
  #5237 (permalink)  
 
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if we leave on 29 March the re-join campaign starts on 30 March
It will be like the SNP's second referendum. Load of hot wind.....

Within 2 years with the UK gone the EU will have morphed into something even more unacceptable than it is just now.

5-10 years it might not even exist.

And they might just not wanting anything to do with the UK being a member so it won't matter what the UK population wants it will be sex and travel.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 13:53
  #5238 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
1. Re-join with no rebate, no opt-outs, probability of having to join the Eurozone, etc, etc.

2. What would be the chances of the other EU 27 (or, by then, will it be the other 26, or 25, or... ) unanimously voting to accept the UK back?

Given the current mess that the EU will have to cope with if and when the UK ever gets round to leaving, and the potential for said mess to get even worse without the UK's contributions ; the rise of anti-EU sentiment in a few other member states ; and the EU's intentions to encourage yet more, even poorer Balkan countries to get their noses into the feeding bowl, one would have to seriously question the common sense of anyone who would actually want to rejoin the EU.

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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 14:03
  #5239 (permalink)  
 
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They will push to re-join what ever happens mainly due to missed place pride of not getting there way currently.

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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 14:10
  #5240 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
It will be like the SNP's second referendum.
Yes, that'll be part of it, along with the Irish reunification referendum.
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