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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 20th Feb 2019, 17:37
  #5041 (permalink)  
 
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In ordinary times ERG wouldn’t matter however we pigeon-hole them. The government would agree a sensible compromise with opposition and that would be that. Unfortunately the Corbyn wrecking-ball tactics of blocking every government move has handed them undreamed of leverage
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 17:47
  #5042 (permalink)  
 
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That's called opposition. Its what they're supposed to do but aren't.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 17:55
  #5043 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
The blue passport?
Yeah, OK, but as you know we could have had that anyway.

The one real benefit, the one I will acknowledge, the collapse in the car industry, leading to reduced pollution, reduced congestion, and health benefits from the extra walking and cycling for those who can no longer afford cars, is somehow never seen as a "benefit" by the #brexitters.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 18:05
  #5044 (permalink)  
 
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Opposition doesn’t just mean blocking and obstructing. In any case it’s you who should be most bothered as the practical effect is to enormously empower the ERG who you apparently loathe.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 18:18
  #5045 (permalink)  
 
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It's not the role of her Majesty's loyal opposition to act as the midwife for the government's legislative program. Since that program apparently contains your own wet dream, you're making dodgy judgements. Standard right wing PPRuNe really.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 18:37
  #5046 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Yeah, OK, but as you know we could have had that anyway.

The one real benefit, the one I will acknowledge, the collapse in the car industry, leading to reduced pollution, reduced congestion, and health benefits from the extra walking and cycling for those who can no longer afford cars, is somehow never seen as a "benefit" by the #brexitters.
With the best will in the world GTW, that's a bit tenuous to put it mildly.....pollution isn't suddenly going to reduce, albeit many poor sods living in heavy air pollution areas and ever increasing asthmatic numbers probably wish it would.....congestion ?......nope, the current volume of traffic negates that one ( might be a reduction in nasty foreign trucks of course ) walking ?......maybe...some of us already do and long since have been.....cycling ?.....not for the faint hearted on the UK's roads so unlikely....but, you missed out the alternative for those priced out of the car purchase option........public transport! . Happily, with the Tories reducing funding, which may have been useful in this respect, there won't be any public transport soon so all the peasantry will just have to jolly well walk ! .....huzzah for austerity !

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Old 20th Feb 2019, 19:09
  #5047 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
With the best will in the world GTW, that's a bit tenuous to put it mildly.....pollution isn't suddenly going to reduce, albeit many poor sods living in heavy air pollution areas and ever increasing asthmatic numbers probably wish it would.....congestion ?......nope, the current volume of traffic negates that one ( might be a reduction in nasty foreign trucks of course ) walking ?......maybe...some of us already do and long since have been.....cycling ?.....not for the faint hearted on the UK's roads so unlikely....but, you missed out the alternative for those priced out of the car purchase option........public transport! . Happily, with the Tories reducing funding, which may have been useful in this respect, there won't be any public transport soon so all the peasantry will just have to jolly well walk ! .....huzzah for austerity !
Excellent - you two are now getting to the real heart of the seismic change that (I hope) is taking place, one that people like PP and Sally point blank refuse to accept, or even acknowledge.....

The UK is already rich beyond our wildest dreams - we simply dont need additional GDP growth or powerhouses or further unsustainable growth. All those things do is make the rich richer, increase the wealth gap, make the country even more overcrowded, put massive strain on public services and infrastructure and help to destroy the environment we live in.

It's this broken economic model that I and (I believe) many others kicked back against when we voted Leave in June 2016. It's time for a change in approach at the top, some fresh thinking and a new, more sustainable approach going forwards.

Whether it will happen or not I cant be sure, but I can atleast say I tried to do my bit.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 20:06
  #5048 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Even worse, I heard a reference the other day to Blair being involved as well. Deliberately being kept low key I expect as any public attempt to resurrect him in any context will just kill off whatever cause he is promoting.

A really distasteful bunch, these arch remainers..
i dont think that Blair's involvement would have a bad effect. Compared to the political pygmies currently running the show he looks supremely competent. Grayling anybody? I will certainly join the party just as soon as it is formed, as will a friend of mine who served from 1997 until 2010.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 20:11
  #5049 (permalink)  
 
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And me. Sick to death of the lies, the extremism, the false narratives, the willingness to gamble with the country - most of all, the enabling of loonies on both sides. Not so naive to think these fools created them but they're certainly emboldened.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 20:24
  #5050 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
And me. Sick to death of the lies, the extremism, the false narratives, the willingness to gamble with the country - most of all, the enabling of loonies on both sides. Not so naive to think these fools created them but they're certainly emboldened.
Only flaw in that plan is these Independent MPs really should be subjecting themselves to the rigour of a democratic vote. Seems especially pertinent given they are all such big advocates of democracy and second votes when circumstances change, etc...
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 20:28
  #5051 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post


i dont think that Blair's involvement would have a bad effect. Compared to the political pygmies currently running the show he looks supremely competent. Grayling anybody? I will certainly join the party just as soon as it is formed, as will a friend of mine who served from 1997 until 2010.
I'd say you're in a (fairly small) minority there EM. Blair is pretty toxic still. Many "traditional" Labour voters see him as a fraud who sold out to big business. To most of the rest of the country he's just a liar and war criminal.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 20:35
  #5052 (permalink)  
 
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Well, luckily your opinion is a hill of beans on that score, as is mine. There's no requirement and that's all that matters. Try the real world once in a while, it's very real indeed.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:01
  #5053 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Excellent - you two are now getting to the real heart of the seismic change that (I hope) is taking place, one that people like PP and Sally point blank refuse to accept, or even acknowledge.....

The UK is already rich beyond our wildest dreams - we simply dont need additional GDP growth or powerhouses or further unsustainable growth. All those things do is make the rich richer, increase the wealth gap, make the country even more overcrowded, put massive strain on public services and infrastructure and help to destroy the environment we live in.

It's this broken economic model that I and (I believe) many others kicked back against when we voted Leave in June 2016. It's time for a change in approach at the top, some fresh thinking and a new, more sustainable approach going forwards.

Whether it will happen or not I cant be sure, but I can atleast say I tried to do my bit.
The country is NOT rich beyond our wildest dreams, we DO need additional growth in GDP, and growth in GDP does not make the country overcrowded. If you think that your statements really are true then you are, and I say this with all respect, a complete and utter fool.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:05
  #5054 (permalink)  
 
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I just have a feeling that wherever you held a poll, thePLP, the electorate as a whole Blair would be streets ahead of a Corbyn. Maybe the Labour membership might be different, Hatton, McCluskey et al.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:05
  #5055 (permalink)  
 
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I'm still waiting for an official response from Lib Dem HQ, or even an unofficial one from their representative here.
If they could come to some form of liaison with the Independent Group it would really shake things up.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:06
  #5056 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Only flaw in that plan is these Independent MPs really should be subjecting themselves to the rigour of a democratic vote. Seems especially pertinent given they are all such big advocates of democracy and second votes when circumstances change, etc...
When you vote for a Member of Parliament you vote for them, not the party they belong to. If they leave that party then the constituents have to recall the MP if they so wish. A bye-election is not a necessity unless the constituents call for it
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:08
  #5057 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I just have a feeling that wherever you held a poll, thePLP, the electorate as a whole Blair would be streets ahead of a Corbyn. Maybe the Labour membership might be different, Hatton, McCluskey et al.
Hatton has been suspended already!!
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:15
  #5058 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm still waiting for an official response from Lib Dem HQ, or even an unofficial one from their representative here.
If they could come to some form of liaison with the Independent Group it would really shake things up.
LOL - you could be waiting a while there, assuming that LibDem "HQ" is somebodys bedroom these days
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:18
  #5059 (permalink)  
 
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My Mrs was in Labour longer than Derek Hatton.
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Old 20th Feb 2019, 21:19
  #5060 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kkbuk View Post
When you vote for a Member of Parliament you vote for them, not the party they belong to. If they leave that party then the constituents have to recall the MP if they so wish. A bye-election is not a necessity unless the constituents call for it
Sure - they'll get there 10mins of fame but, unless they are able to capitalise on it, the likelihood is most of them will be looking for a new job when the next constituency vote does take place.
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