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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 17th Feb 2019, 10:44
  #4801 (permalink)  
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Now then, just when you thought all the buses had departed the depot, along comes a double bendy one.
That’s disengenuous, distortional, inappropriate and quite possibly delusional. Ratcliffe leaves because he is fed up with the UK present tax structure, the highest marginal rate in the world and because he anticipates the coming catastrophe under Corbyn and his Marxists. To pretend otherwise is to distort the truth in hideous blind sight. Whatever Ratcliffe might think of the future, his offshoring of himself shows exactly what he thinks about Britain and he is both right in his thought (that’s an opinion) and wise to take action to preserve his wealth from the gaping socialist maw.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 10:56
  #4802 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Now then, just when you thought all the buses had departed the depot, along comes a double bendy one.
That’s disengenuous, distortional, inappropriate and quite possibly delusional. Ratcliffe leaves because he is fed up with the UK present tax structure, the highest marginal rate in the world and because he anticipates the coming catastrophe under Corbyn and his Marxists. To pretend otherwise is to distort the truth in hideous blind sight. Whatever Ratcliffe might think of the future, his offshoring of himself shows exactly what he thinks about Britain and he is both right in his thought (that’s an opinion) and wise to take action to preserve his wealth from the gaping socialist maw.
Highly creative
What you haven't explained is why, when Britain is going to be flourishing after Brexit when we have taken back control and every country has given us wonderful trading terms, there is likely to be a Marxist government.
Surely all the millions who have risen out of poverty and bought their new houses will be voting Conservative to protect their new-found wealth from Labour taxes?
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 11:02
  #4803 (permalink)  
 
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It's a pity that a man as clever as Ratcliffe lacked the foresight to see one of the possible outcomes of this, taking you at face value of course, General Cheetah, would be a Corbyn government, because what it really, really, really...really looks like is a prominent Brexit supporter who told us how great Brexit would be failng to stick around to enjoy that greatness.

Oh well, all the more stockpiled body bags for me then.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 11:07
  #4804 (permalink)  
 
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The Marxist government is of course very likely, but for the entirely opposite reason that people are going to to be disenchanted with the results of Brexit and even deeper austerity. They will be so disenchanted with the present government who will be blamed for the situation, that they will fall for the promises of Corbyn and McDonnell to put it all right.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 11:45
  #4805 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
The Marxist government is of course very likely, but for the entirely opposite reason that people are going to to be disenchanted with the results of Brexit and even deeper austerity. They will be so disenchanted with the present government who will be blamed for the situation, that they will fall for the promises of Corbyn and McDonnell to put it all right.
Actually, I wouldn't be too sure about that. Labour haven't, in all fairness, acquitted themselves well throughout the process I'm saddened to say and given the protracted debacle and saturation coverage, something called voter apathy may come to the fore, certainly for the turnout.

That said, I don't subscribe to the perception of a "Marxist " UK should Labour return to office...they've waited a long time, in political terms, and the Tories have, as we know, hardly endeared themselves to certain electorate demographics so it would be very much in Labours interest not to jeopardise their return with the imposition of ideology, plus I feel this suggestion is beginning to sound a bit like mild paranoia at times.

There again I will clearly support them with their intent to remedy the social deprivations induced by the Tories and the proposed return to public ownership of the utilities, infrastructure projects and the railways, albeit the latter isn't quite as simple as the electioneering promotions imply.

Back to the "5 Sundays and counting " ......

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Old 17th Feb 2019, 12:28
  #4806 (permalink)  
 
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You are right of course that Labour has beer as useless as the Tories over Brexit. But when the voters are p'd off with the present lot, Corbyn and company will be the only alternative.
Anyway it's my turn now for some CAVOK.
​​​​​​
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 12:43
  #4807 (permalink)  
 
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The very rich have always been keen to establish residency in tax havens around the world. While it makes for a good Brexit doom and gloom story I'm certain that Sir Jim Ratcliffe's reasons for moving are more to do with avoiding punative death taxes rather than the UK leaving the EU.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 13:16
  #4808 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
CAVOK
Looking out the window it is clear that the weather isn't an excuse today. So when I've finished this coffee I can't really skive off getting out there and delivering some more anti-#brexit leaflets. (Not that they do an awful lot round here - preaching to the converted.)
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 13:51
  #4809 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
The very rich have always been keen to establish residency in tax havens around the world. While it makes for a good Brexit doom and gloom story I'm certain that Sir Jim Ratcliffe's reasons for moving are more to do with avoiding punative death taxes rather than the UK leaving the EU.
I wonder if at any stage n your life, you hoped one day you would become an apologist for billionaires you've never met.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 14:02
  #4810 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Looking out the window it is clear that the weather isn't an excuse today. So when I've finished this coffee I can't really skive off getting out there and delivering some more anti-#brexit leaflets. (Not that they do an awful lot round here - preaching to the converted.)
best save your breath to cool your porridge, then, Gertie.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 14:43
  #4811 (permalink)  
 
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GOULI,

I have no idea what the reasons are for his leaving. Reading all the articles in the Times, he seems to be a genius with making profits out of previous companies losses.

But the following stood out.

The Alchemists: The Ineos Story, he described himself, Currie and Reece as “deeply pro-British”. Yet they have clashed with the government over tax before: in 2010, after Gordon Brown refused to help Ineos by deferring a £350m VAT bill for six months, Ratcliffe moved the headquarters to Switzerland for six years — a move that cost the Treasury hundreds of millions of pounds

People might not like these capitalists much. They might not like them due to their wealth. But he employs 18500, not all in the UK. Where will the UK be without people like him paying millions in taxes? Who is going to replace that money? Where will the jobs come from?
As an aside, he grew up in a council house just outside Manchester.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 14:56
  #4812 (permalink)  
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The only reasons not to like them is either because you’re envious of them or you want to rob them of their gotten wealth to redistribute as you might see fit and to whom.
There is no moral high ground to be made by those who don’t like the capitalists because, in parodying the sins of envy and theft those who don’t like the capitalists are no less guilty than the worst of the capitalists themselves.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 15:30
  #4813 (permalink)  
 
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I always thought tax evasion and getting a gong from HM were a non-starter?
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 15:37
  #4814 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
GOULI,

I have no idea what the reasons are for his leaving. Reading all the articles in the Times, he seems to be a genius with making profits out of previous companies losses.

But the following stood out.

The Alchemists: The Ineos Story, he described himself, Currie and Reece as “deeply pro-British”. Yet they have clashed with the government over tax before: in 2010, after Gordon Brown refused to help Ineos by deferring a £350m VAT bill for six months, Ratcliffe moved the headquarters to Switzerland for six years — a move that cost the Treasury hundreds of millions of pounds

People might not like these capitalists much. They might not like them due to their wealth. But he employs 18500, not all in the UK. Where will the UK be without people like him paying millions in taxes? Who is going to replace that money? Where will the jobs come from?
As an aside, he grew up in a council house just outside Manchester.
For a genius at making money, in your view, the little matter of £350m of unpaid VAT is, presumably, acceptable.

And he didn't grow up in a council house near Manchester, Failsworth to be precise, he lived there until he was ten, after which the family emigrated to Yorkshire, Hull in fact, so this "rags to riches " inference isn't entirely accurate...but accurate enough to impress on JB.
That, and he's hardly unique in being another "great British patriot "...another well worn and hackneyed expression, to rapidly disappear from the UK at the first opportunity.

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Old 17th Feb 2019, 15:45
  #4815 (permalink)  
 
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There are a vanishingly small number of these rags to riches people, they are the lottery winners of the business world, right place, right time. Then there are those like myself, poorish working class background who did ok in business and end up comfortable. Then there are the failures, they bump along the bottom, often with crackpot or borderline illegal get rich schemes that never seem to pan out. Normally these people are not too bright, the ones I know of like this are all Tories.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 15:51
  #4816 (permalink)  
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GTW, just curious.

What is the rationale behind an anti-Brexit leaflet? 3 years too late surely?

What is the point of giving out leaflets to those you believe are converted?

What does the leaflet contain that the appropriate media, seen by your target audience, does not?

Put it another way, isn't it all a bit pointless?
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 15:56
  #4817 (permalink)  
 
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Entirely, but it's the way politics works. Why? Probably because it always has done. One old fella I knew in the Labour Party used to knock on doors and get a mouthful of expletives. He would walk back down the path saying " I'll put them down as doubtful."
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 16:19
  #4818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
GTW, just curious.

What is the rationale behind an anti-Brexit leaflet? 3 years too late surely?

What is the point of giving out leaflets to those you believe are converted?

What does the leaflet contain that the appropriate media, seen by your target audience, does not?

Put it another way, isn't it all a bit pointless?
Well, not quite, there are elections in May, and we want to make sure that all our remain-supporting residents know how complicit Labour is in #brexit, don't we
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 16:20
  #4819 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
For a genius at making money, in your view, the little matter of £350m of unpaid VAT is, presumably, acceptable.

And he didn't grow up in a council house near Manchester, Failsworth to be precise, he lived there until he was ten, after which the family emigrated to Yorkshire, Hull in fact, so this "rags to riches " inference isn't entirely accurate...but accurate enough to impress on JB.
That, and he's hardly unique in being another "great British patriot "...another well worn and hackneyed expression, to rapidly disappear from the UK at the first opportunity.
Point One, I made no comments on whether I found his tax bill acceptable.
Point 2, At what point is living there till aged 9/10 not growing up?
Point 3, Rag to riches? Another saying that I didn't even mention.

If you are going to reply to comments, try not to twist them to make your smug self seem superior.
I clearly stated that the quote was from the Sunday Times re his tax liabilities.
You, from your comments, seem to hate anyone who makes money from taking risks and working hard. That is your business. I was asking a question, that without people such as him, who is going to replace the tax? Will you voluntarily pay more? Or do you just sit there criticizing everybody else?

I won't be replying to you again. I agree with some of your former colleagues though....
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 16:23
  #4820 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
One old fella I knew in the Labour Party used to knock on doors and get a mouthful of expletives. He would walk back down the path saying " I'll put them down as doubtful."
That's really unhelpful, and if his party techies knew he was doing it they'd delete his returns from the database, as being so inaccurate that they were of negative value.

Why would you knock on a door where you're going to get "a mouthful of expletives" anyway? - complete waste of time. Bad data, and bad targeting.

Unless, of course, this guy was so useless that he was deliberately sent to knock on doors where he couldn't do any actual harm.
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