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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 16th Feb 2019, 07:21
  #4721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere flat
Posts: 98
It can work both ways. Our local constituency voted over 70% to leave. Our local MP is backing remain by his actions, so he will not get my vote next time, and possibly lose those of many others.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 07:24
  #4722 (permalink)  
 
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The leave notion that it would all be ok, were it not for those pesky/treacherous/quisling remainers even though they represent by a fag paper, just under half of the plebiscite & almost certainly a majority of the people is convenient. It serves two purposes, neatly bullseyeing the arrow of blame for an unravelling multibungle of generational proportions that even the staunchest Ian Paisley-alike brexiter recognises privately it would be a good idea to get busy dissociating themselves from at a clip but moreover, it helps to discount the missteps of an appallingly poor prime minister who has made strategic errors at every turn.

It should have been a 'I don't know what I'm doing' klaxon as soon as we heard 'Brexit means Brexit' and 'Red, white & blue Brexit', as meaningless a pair of phrases as it's possible to conjure. From there, we had the triggering of Article 50 which set the clock ticking in much the same way as lighting the fuse on a stick of dynamite while being locked in the building is a bad idea, limping on to Chequers which achieved the remarkable feat of uniting the country ...

This was followed by an attempt to divide the EU 27 from the commission culminating in the Salzburg humiliation, the deal that wasn't a deal, that was oversold, the postponed vote, the lost vote, the repeated attempts to circumvent parliament coupled with a complete inability to compromise in the wake of the worst defeat in parliamentary history and to this week where we saw a sitting government fail to get a routine vote through the house.

All this we hear daily of businesses leaving the country, delaying investment, potential shortages, emergency boat contracts that have to be cancelled, ministers openly displaying contempt for the prime minister, jockeying unedifyingly & publicly for pole position to replace someone who makes Grayling look like he knows what he's doing. And none of this is the fault of the EU, the ERG, the DUP or even remainers. Decent PM's take this stuff in their stride but this one has achieved the historically unique feat of being plainly incompetent & unassailable in post.

Presumably, it's the tacit recognition of this that has leavers casting around for someone to blame so often, which leads us directly to the cosmic brains around here suggesting deportation for anyone not adherent to their political creed, Now I wonder where in history we have seen trains used to remove, en masse, people the government didn't like?
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 07:35
  #4723 (permalink)  
 
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Pretty much all the remain victory's with hindsight have just made a default exit more likely.

As for strategic errors by the PM it depends what you actually want as the outcome.

If its default exit she is doing a great job preventing remains limiting the exit and giving stuff to parliament that there is no way in hell that they will go for. So the outcome is default exit which is what some of us want.

Now if it had been politically possible to start planning and implementing for a default exit with zero pissing about with negotiations that were never going to work, the UK would be in a better place. But it wasn't so we just have to deal with the situation anyway.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 07:44
  #4724 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 15
You didn't know the backstop was proposed by the UK government? Oh.
I don't care whose idea it was, I am only interested in how it is being dealt with now. When "controlling chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef coming into the EU" (Leo) is brought into the discussion any 'hard border' concept is coming only from the EU's side. So the continuation of the backstop as it is 'to avoid a hard border' is just meaningless game playing. The EU actually wants a hard border there (due to their 'fear' of chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef' -- wherever they might come from!). 'No deal' will be a way of providing what they want. But will Ireland really be able to survive that? And will the EU really care? The EU will be far too busy dealing with much, much larger problems in mainland Europe to worry about (such as 'Brexit-induced' recession in Germany, etc., etc.?) than some remote island out on the fringes. Leo will then find out who his true friends are.



Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Interesting suggestion by Terry Christian:

Business owners forced to lay workers off because of brexit and the weak pound should lay off Brexiteers first. As he puts it: "It's time they sucked it up and stopped whining. They should be happy. That's what they voted for. If we were on an aeroplane and 50% voted to switch the engines off and there were only a certain number of parachutes, morally I don’t think we should give the parachutes to those who voted to switch the engines off.”

He also runs a poll on his twitter account where people can vote on is proposal. It is 49 per cent Brexiteers first, 26 per cent Remainers first: twit/terrychristian.

For the sake of fairness, I would add to his proposal that Brexiteers should be sacked first, but also be hired first by all those international companies eagerly waiting to move to the UK when milk and honey starts flowing here.
(Other than a twit who twits on twitter, who is Terry Christian?) Using his argument, all new jobs straight after Brexit (and remember how the economy grew after the 'Leave' vote when we were told it would 'crash'?) should go to Brexiteers only. The Remainers can "sucked it up and stopped whining". His aviation related example is appallingly stupid. Who says Brexit is 'switching the engines off'? Only Remoaners. And, having taught 'practice forced landings' only this week I can assure you that an engine being 'switched off' is no need for a parachute! But then, far too many people with a lot to say do not know what they are talking about.
NoelEvans is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 08:00
  #4725 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
Surely it is the remain in the EU supporters who have been responsible for generating project fear and doing everything in their power to prevent Brexit taking place, thus destabilising the economy.

If they had just accepted the democratic decision to leave the EU in the first place, without any deals or preconditions, then stability would have been achieved far sooner than this constant to and fro over the last couple of years.

That's odd. It was Boris and his friends who promised wonderful deals with the EU rather than a quick no-deal exit.. They and their supporters have been rather quiet on that particular aspect lately.


At least the leave contingent appear to have been aware that the success of the UK after Brexit will depend solely on the efforts of those residing in the UK.
I have a feeling that it will also be rather dependent on the countries that we need to make trade deals with, once we approach them on our knees.
But then we always knew that when it all goes wrong it will be anyone's fault except those who pushed us off the cliff in the first place.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 08:01
  #4726 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I don't care whose idea it was, I am only interested in how it is being dealt with now. When "controlling chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef coming into the EU" (Leo) is brought into the discussion any 'hard border' concept is coming only from the EU's side. So the continuation of the backstop as it is 'to avoid a hard border' is just meaningless game playing. The EU actually wants a hard border there (due to their 'fear' of chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef' -- wherever they might come from!). 'No deal' will be a way of providing what they want. But will Ireland really be able to survive that? And will the EU really care? The EU will be far too busy dealing with much, much larger problems in mainland Europe to worry about (such as 'Brexit-induced' recession in Germany, etc., etc.?) than some remote island out on the fringes. Leo will then find out who his true friends are.
The ever lengthening list of things you don't care about is immaterial. You merely fall neatly into the perverse & large subset of automaton Brexiteers who voted to take control of our borders, but simultaneously manage the feat of holding the competing notion those belonging to others don't matter AND never dwell on the idiocy of that position,




Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
(Other than a twit who twits on twitter, who is Terry Christian?)
There is literally no subject on earth which being ignorant of makes you cleverer. Not sport. Not Youtubers. Not anything. Ignorance is ignorance is ignorance and it's all the same I wouldn't be so keen to display your ignorance so frequently like a peacock when it's not ok to performatively write "who?" under celeb stories. Use google or go away.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 08:10
  #4727 (permalink)  
 
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When "controlling chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef coming into the EU" (Leo) is brought into the discussion any 'hard border' concept is coming only from the EU's side.
Thank you very much, but I and many others do not want those products (and the chemically dosed pork) in the UK.
That's nothing to do with the Irish border.

If you want that stuff you can go to the US and fill your plate.
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Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 08:28
  #4728 (permalink)  
 
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Well of course we don't have to buy it and a lot of us won't. But the majority will simply because it's cheap. People who just want a cheap piled high plate will love it. I'm guessing though that UK farmers won't share that view and will go to the wall. Ironic as most of them voted Leave. One of my friends is a JRM lover and a farmer, I think he's beginning to have doubts.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 08:31
  #4729 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Well of course we don't have to buy it and a lot of us won't. But the majority will simply because it's cheap. People who just want a cheap piled high plate will love it. I'm guessing though that UK farmers won't share that view and will go to the wall. Ironic as most of them voted Leave. One of my friends is a JRM lover and a farmer, I think he's beginning to have doubts.
Except that those who have to eat in schools, hospitals or cheap restaurants won't have a choice. Once it gets into the food chain you won't know where it is.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:01
  #4730 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
Surely it is the remain in the EU supporters who have been responsible for generating project fear and doing everything in their power to prevent Brexit taking place, thus destabilising the economy.
Oh look, the #brexshitters are, as predicted, blaming remainers for #brexshit going pear-shaped, as predicted, because there was nowhere else it could go.

What a surprise. Not.

Phrases that leap instantly to mind include "own your shit" and "you won, suck it up".
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:03
  #4731 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
The ever lengthening list of things you don't care about is immaterial. You merely fall neatly into the perverse & large subset of automaton Brexiteers who voted to take control of our borders, but simultaneously manage the feat of holding the competing notion those belonging to others don't matter AND never dwell on the idiocy of that position,
There you go with your unsubstantiated assumptions again!

I have never said how I voted. You are making unsubstantiated assumptions. So, as that is the direct evidence that I have of all of your assumptions/statements, I therefore have to take that to apply to all you other assumptions/statements.

What do I want? Probably the same as that vast majority of the population: Just get on with it and quit all the Moaning!

And get a life!! It's a nice day (the birds are twittering much more cheerfully than the electronic version!), go out for a walk. You'll feel so much better for it.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:09
  #4732 (permalink)  
 
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Just wait for the moaning if the EU goes tits up and disintegrates like some of us think is a strong possibility.

tescoapp is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:10
  #4733 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
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Reports of companies saying they want to leave the UK are generally dismissed as "project fear" by Brexiteers. Ok fair enough, there is always a bit of spin on anything you see in the news.

However I can't remember reading about any companies wanting to move their operations TO the UK?

Even if 9 out of 10 that threaten to leave don't actually do it, there will always be more business leaving than coming. I don't see how anyone can believe in the opposite.

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Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:14
  #4734 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
The EU actually wants a hard border there (due to their 'fear' of chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef' -- wherever they might come from!). 'No deal' will be a way of providing what they want.
They don't want chlorinated chicken, hormone treated beef, goods produced with child labor etc. in the EU. If the UK post-Brexit does not want to operate according to those standards the whole of Europe adheres through an agreement to that effect, it inevitably means a hard border between the UK and the EU so that the EU can protect itself from chlorinated chicken, hormone treated beef, goods produced with child labor. It is the UK's choice if they want stay on board with what 27 other European countries regards as sensible. It is yet again a have the cake and eat it dilemma Brexiteers continually fail to understand. You cannot blame all those pesky EU regulations, the ECJ and the EC enforcing them and suggest that milk and honey will begin to flow once the UK can begin a regulatory race to the bottom when freed from EU shackles - but at the same time expect the EU to not protect itself against such a move through a treaty to that effect or, in the absence of it, a hard border..
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:20
  #4735 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Just wait for the moaning if the EU goes tits up and disintegrates like some of us think is a strong possibility.
As always, that's the best you can do... the EU might fail as well.
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Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:22
  #4736 (permalink)  
 
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There have been more than a few opened up offices in the UK. Engineering firms have had an increased presence for over a year now. They are just paper work exercises at the moment.

There are more than a few EU funds and company's that don't want to be only be listed in EU markets and want access to London.

Nothing will be declared or much happen until its known definitely out or in. Then there will be a flurry of companies rearranging things. And it won't be as the media are reporting or as any of us have predicted. Its a bit to fluid for them to commit to anything yet.

My mates engineering firms have all the scripts setup and ready to run on the computer databases. But they won't hit the button until its 100% certain UK is out and that won't happen until the second hand goes past the hour on the 29th.

For them given the choice between the 29th of March and a couple of months later the 29th of March will save them a heap of problems with accountancy and tax years.

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Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:23
  #4737 (permalink)  
 
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prOOne

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Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:59
  #4738 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
As always, that's the best you can do... the EU might fail as well.
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Someone put up a Twitter poll: "Do you think the EU will fail in the long run?"

Given that the sun, and indeed the entire universe, will fail in the long run, the only possible answer is "yes".
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 10:08
  #4739 (permalink)  
 
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Certainly wasn't me asking in the long run.

Next 5 years 50/50

Next 10 years 60/40 it fails.

If it survives more than 10 it's here for the long term.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 10:10
  #4740 (permalink)  
 
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Tesco’s right about one thing: the consequences of prolonged delay and uncertainty are very probably worse then those actually caused by Brexit
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