Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 15th Feb 2019, 17:27
  #4701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
The remain faction here have exposed as fantasy the idea that the EU values solidarity above economics, and will protect Irish interests. Maybe they should have a word wth the Irish press....

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/e...-37818812.html
'A senior source' with no name of course.

We've reached the point where quitters cannot articulate any tangible benefits for their unicorn world, all that remains is to dig up something, anything to disparage the EU.

I say reached, did you lot ever have anything to offer the majority who didn't vote to leave?
Parapunter is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 17:56
  #4702 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 75
Posts: 16,447
say reached, did you lot ever have anything to offer the majority who didn't vote to leave?
What majority? Remain plus non-voters plus under 18s?
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 18:13
  #4703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 166
Joking aside, that's one of the reasons why a 2nd Ref or peoples vote or whatever should never take place (for the next 40 years anyway)

Can you imagine the lengths both sides would go to to try to ensure a win? Your dearly departed Granny submitting a postal vote from the grave (who knew she was a Remainer?), nasty people trawling nursing homes to drag the elderly out to vote. It could get really stupid, and quite intimidating for a lot of people who perhaps dont feel that strongly about it, either way.

I think we've all had enough of Referendums, for now at least.
andrewn is online now  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 18:14
  #4704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
... did you lot ever have anything to offer the majority who didn't vote to leave?
What a strange concept of democracy! It does give the idea of someone having lost the argument.
NoelEvans is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 18:20
  #4705 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 12
About the Irish border: I do find it rather strange that one side is insisting on a 'backstop' that will avoid a 'hard border' between the Republic and Northern Ireland and is insisting on it so determinedly that it seriously risks running into a 'no deal' situation that will cause -- you guessed it! -- a 'hard border' between the Republic and Northern Ireland!!! I'm sure that someone can find some logic there. If so, please explain?
NoelEvans is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 18:21
  #4706 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 65
Posts: 9,640
https://order-order.com/2019/02/15/e...ves-uk-brexit/

The narrative of a mass exodus of City jobs has already been consigned to the Project Fear dustbin of history, with just 2,000 jobs now expected to move in the event of no-deal, compared to wild predictions of over 230,000 before the referendum. Now the FT of all places is reporting that EU asset managers are actually considering moving to the UK because of Brexit.

That wasn’t in the script…

EU fund managers are up in arms over EU rules which would force them to trade dual-listed shares on uncompetitive EU exchanges after Brexit if the Commission refuse to give them access to London after Brexit. The German Investment Funds Association said that “without equivalence granted to UK trading venues, we see the real possibility of EU27 fund managers locating operations in the future in the UK”.

London’s pull as the financial capital of the world is just too strong, whether the EU likes it or not…

ORAC is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 18:23
  #4707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain
Age: 76
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Don't you think that's a little unfair? Tesco has established that he knows more than any of us on banking, transport, politics, international relations and gynaecology. We should be grateful for his continued valued contributions to this group, whilst he builds his house in the EU.
Perhaps Tesco is related to Mr Trump who is the world's greatest expert in every subject.
kkbuk is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 18:31
  #4708 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
About the Irish border: I do find it rather strange that one side is insisting on a 'backstop' that will avoid a 'hard border' between the Republic and Northern Ireland and is insisting on it so determinedly that it seriously risks running into a 'no deal' situation that will cause -- you guessed it! -- a 'hard border' between the Republic and Northern Ireland!!! I'm sure that someone can find some logic there. If so, please explain?
You didn't know the backstop was proposed by the UK government? Oh.
Parapunter is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 19:08
  #4709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lincoln
Age: 66
Posts: 450
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...kstop-proposal

[color=left=#121212]The government has proposed two customs solutions: a partnership, under which Britain would collect import duties on the EU’s behalf, and a high-tech “max-fac” alternative, but the EU has rejected both as unworkable. So Brussels has insisted the UK sign up to a legally binding “backstop” clause, or fallback option, to ensure there is no hard border.[/color]
In response the UK proposed:

So what is the UK’s backstop proposal?

[color=left=#121212]In essence, the UK’s proposal is for the whole of the UK to remain in the customs union for a limited period after the end of the transition period – so it would leave the EU in March 2019 and the single market in December 2020, but stay in the customs union for longer. The idea is “to apply a temporary customs arrangement ... between the UK and the EU” that would allow the UK to sign free trade deals with other countries (but not implement the parts of them relating to tariffs, rendering them largely pointless). The proposed UK backstop “will only be in place until the future customs arrangement can be introduced”, which the government “expects” to be the end of December 2021 at the latest. [/color]
https://www.ft.com/content/48be169c-...b-4acfcfb08c11

Several quotes from Barnier that it would appear I cannot post, but it does appear as though the EU required the backstop and are not actually happy with UK's proposed backstop, but then neither are most people in Parliament.
Exrigger is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 19:36
  #4710 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 1,456
This thread has become ugly, reflecting a rotten cultural behaviour in our society. In or out, be respectful?
OK - I know you heard me the first time. But in the short time since, it has become more obvious. No names, but FCS!! Please try to be more courteous in discussion.
jindabyne is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 20:31
  #4711 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,000
Yeah that's right, suppress those emotions and reign in those feelings, it's not as if it's important...
pr00ne is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 22:20
  #4712 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,888
Interesting suggestion by Terry Christian:

Business owners forced to lay workers off because of brexit and the weak pound should lay off Brexiteers first. As he puts it: "It's time they sucked it up and stopped whining. They should be happy. That's what they voted for. If we were on an aeroplane and 50% voted to switch the engines off and there were only a certain number of parachutes, morally I don’t think we should give the parachutes to those who voted to switch the engines off.”

He also runs a poll on his twitter account where people can vote on is proposal. It is 49 per cent Brexiteers first, 26 per cent Remainers first: https://twitter.com/terrychristian?lang=de

For the sake of fairness, I would add to his proposal that Brexiteers should be sacked first, but also be hired first by all those international companies eagerly waiting to move to the UK when milk and honey starts flowing here.
virginblue is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2019, 22:32
  #4713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,383
Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
"Business owners forced to lay workers off because of brexit and the weak pound should lay off Brexiteers first."
Well, no business is required to do this, but we hear that a number are choosing to do so. It will be interesting to see whether any of the "victims" take their former employer to tribunal claiming that this was an unfair selection criterion.

Whoops, silly me, I forget for a moment that the Tories had effectively abolished the tribunals.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 00:02
  #4714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 62
Posts: 1
Surely it is the remain in the EU supporters who have been responsible for generating project fear and doing everything in their power to prevent Brexit taking place, thus destabilising the economy.

If they had just accepted the democratic decision to leave the EU in the first place, without any deals or preconditions, then stability would have been achieved far sooner than this constant to and fro over the last couple of years.

At least the leave contingent appear to have been aware that the success of the UK after Brexit will depend solely on the efforts of those residing in the UK.

That said, my proposal would be that anyone who wanted to remain in the EU should be sacked from their jobs in the UK and sent over to the EU to take advantage of all the new jobs and positions opening up as a result of Brexit. I am sure that all those UK based firms moving across The Channel will be grateful to be able to retain a skilled and trained workforce in their new offices abroad. Those so employed can send money back to the UK to support family members who are unable to undertake the move. Sort of a Polish migration in reverse.

Brexit just keeps getting better and better the closer we get to leaving without a deal.
G0ULI is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 06:33
  #4715 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 66
Posts: 58
I was talking to my 76 year old brother yesterday and he expressed this exact same opinion. It's his view that had there not been the Remainer opposition to Brexit it is possible that the EU would not have put up quite such a strong fight. I suppose that is a possibility, after all they must be well aware of the level of opposition to Brexit within the country, which according to most polls is currently running at around 55%.

So I suppose all those people behind the news reporters on a College Green can feel that they are achieving something for their cause and you can't really argue that it's any less legitimate than Banksie's Leave antics.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 06:43
  #4716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 53
Posts: 539
Its my opinion as well.

The EU has been 1000 times better at keeping a united front. The in fighting in the UK has just given them hope that the bluffing might actually work this time having failed completely in the past. And if they stick to their guns then there is a chance if the UK going for something stupid or cancelling altogether.

The polls are just a tool for either side 55% is no real change to when ref was held. You can get a 10% swing either way with just the wording of the question and selection of your survey group. Plus the 55% is the clean results with the no answers and don't knows removed. Leave supporters are more likely to give those two reply's. Then there are people like me who will if asked say I would vote remain even though there is no chance in hell of that happening.

Anyway we shall see if the nonsense continues after the 29th.
tescoapp is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 06:47
  #4717 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 75
Posts: 16,447
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Yeah that's right, suppress those emotions and reign in those feelings, it's not as if it's important...
You mean debate things in a cool calm manner like our MPs?
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 06:49
  #4718 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 75
Posts: 16,447
He also runs a poll on his twitter account where people can vote on is proposal. It is 49 per cent Brexiteers first, 26 per cent Remainers first: https://twitter.com/terrychristian?lang=de
Of course the vote too shut off the engines was 39% for, 36% against, and the remainder.

And in the second vote 25% were undecided or couldn't care less.
A they say, depended how you phrased the question.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 07:04
  #4719 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 66
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Its my opinion as well.


Anyway we shall see if the nonsense continues after the 29th.
Well that depends on exactly what happens after the 29th. My suspicion here is that if so called "Project Fear" is even 25% accurate and a No Deal exit occurs then the Leave politicians are going to reap the whirlwind. The Leave voters will have very short memories if their, in many cases already blighted, lives are blighted still further by an economic downturn of any degree.

And make no mistake Remainers will blame any downturn on Brexit. The Leavers for their part will counter blame the wider economy, Trump, Putin, Merkle, even probably Markle but they should be warned, it won't wash. The remaining Leavers will turn on those who promised a post EU land of milk and honey and delivered only Wetherspoons and misery. But if this comes to pass then those advocates of Leave can be assured of one thing, their political careers are behind them. Silver lining and all that.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 07:16
  #4720 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 53
Posts: 539
After that date there is nothing that will roll back the clock.

I see a complete change of faces both on the UK and EU side of things.

There will be a down turn what every happens. Some of it to do with Brexit and the rest is world wide issues. It will just be the ability to ride it out that defines if the UK is in a better place post exit. I am sure though the full effect of the downturn will be given to the leavers.

Even if they do turn on leavers there is anything they can do. They can't reset the clock.

We are already seeing the damage limitation by the EU kicking in with dispensations in various sectors. Once they are in it will be quiet difficult for them to shut them off in a major downturn. Once things start picking up again then it won't matter and the UK will have had a couple of years to sort itself out.

3 years it will be a completely different political situation and situation in the EU. Plus we will know which of the fiction writers predictions were anywhere near correct I suspect none. Then if there isn't a GE triggered in the next few weeks there will be a GE.
tescoapp is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.