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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:55
  #4581 (permalink)  
 
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It's a fact on every EU external border
Yes, so it a EU requirement not a UK requirement.

is because there is nothing for you to offer
There will never be anything on offer that you will be happy with. So no point replying. Just let you carry on talking to yourself and have a laugh at what you write while waiting for the clock to count down then we can see some real facts
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:55
  #4582 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
That sentiment is not limited to leavers.
No I don't believe it is. NI should have been ceded to the Republic when they got independence. I don't know, but I suspect it was the Ulster Unionist's connections with the Conservative party of the time, as much as anything else, that stopped it.

Divide and rule (the policy much favoured by the UK foreign office down the years) doesn't work. It didn't in Pakistan, it doesn't in Korea, nor in Cyprus and it has only worked in comparatively recent history as a result of the GF agreement.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:04
  #4583 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Emotional again. Ultimately you may be correct.

Equally the soothsayers, whatever the outcome, will claim they were right all along.
Nope. You've confused robustness with emotion. Here's a prediction for you though on the subject of soothsayers. When this blows up & shafts us good, leavers will blame everyone but themselves. It will be Brussels' fault for not offering enough unicorns, remainers undermining everything, Olly Robbins the mole in the hole, me for not believing hard enough in *pushed specs up nose* 'Project hope'. You name it, you'll blame it.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:15
  #4584 (permalink)  
 
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May cornered by Corbyn on Seaborne Freight..well I suppose there had to come a first times Grayling short circuited the process. He should walk.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:17
  #4585 (permalink)  
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if this blows up & shafts us good, leavers will blame everyone but themselves

Now that I can agree with.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:24
  #4586 (permalink)  
 
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No I don't believe it is. NI should have been ceded to the Republic when they got independence. I don't know, but I suspect it was the Ulster Unionist's connections with the Conservative party of the time, as much as anything else, that stopped it.
OK, we get that you don't believe in democracy, so I understand why you are happy with the currently constituted EU.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:27
  #4587 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Yes, so it a EU requirement not a UK requirement.
It is not an EU requirement. It follows from the principle, like anywhere else in the world, of two entities not being in a common market, something, I shall hasten to add, Camp Brexit is so keen about. Having a hard border is a requirement of not being in the common market, and as this is Camp Brexit's desire and not the EU's desire, the one responsible for a hard border is not the EU. Denying that is akin to my three year old insisting on having the cake and eating it.

Originally Posted by Parapunter
Amazing. There's your leaver in black & white saying they'll happily sacrifice the United Kingdom for Brexit and that is somehow normal in their heads. And by the way, bucko, the EU DO have us by the balls on trade negotiations as do the Japanese, the Americans, the Chinese & everyone else coming to town. I wrote a long post on this two days ago that strangely, you all chose to ignore...
Wondering how this hamsterwheel thread needs to be renamed then. Will it be the "Disunited Kingdom Politics Hamsterwheel"? Or the "Kingdom of Great Britain Politics Hamsterwheel"? Or, sans Scotland, the "Kingdom of Half Great Britain Politics Hamsterwheel"?
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:58
  #4588 (permalink)  
 
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So even if the barriers are only on Irish soil its the UK's fault?

They could choose to have the checks between Ireland and the mainland Europe.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 13:07
  #4589 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
So even if the barriers are only on Irish soil its the UK's fault?

They could choose to have the checks between Ireland and the mainland Europe.
Well yes actually. And yes, they could chose to put Ireland outside a mainland border, but they never will.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 13:48
  #4590 (permalink)  
 
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And why on earth should they? The UK, not Ireland chose to leave the EU. Why should Ireland place itself outside the common market because of an insane folly of its neighboring country?
I have a better idea. The UK can easily solve the problem by donating Northern Ireland to the Republic. At least that would not mean expecting someone else to clean up the mess the UK has created.
So even if the barriers are only on Irish soil its the UK's fault?
Yes. Because that it is wholly irrational to expect that the only place on earth without a hard border between two states with no common market could be between the Republic and N.I. To insist that the EU must act differently would essentially mean forcing the EU to Brexit as it would result in an unhindered flow of goods and services into the EU from the UK that only follow UK standards which will be different from those nasty nasty EU standards (as we were promised again and again). Apparently Brexiteers lack the imagination that a border is more than lager louts presenting passports when on a booze trip to a foreign country. That is the smallest of all border issues we are facing.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 13:50
  #4591 (permalink)  
 
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Personally I think they are just using Ireland as political cosh.

Once it outlives it's use they will just drop it and shrug shoulders and say it's thier problem.

Most people wouldn't have a problem with Eire being whole again... Apart from I think it's about 60% of the population at the moment that live there...

It would be a blood bath.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:03
  #4592 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post

Soros = shorthand for Jew/. Shadowy anti democratic cabal, ...
I find that comment to be extremely distasteful and should justify action by the Mods.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:10
  #4593 (permalink)  
 
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Effluent Man:
at what point do they put the country first?
I think you know the answer to that, as do we all: It's "Me, Me, Me! Oh yeah and my party. Oh, and the country too probably" in that order. A pox on all of them.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:19
  #4594 (permalink)  
 
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Its not for myself, I genuinely believe that the UK will be better off and happier, medium to long term outside the EU.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:24
  #4595 (permalink)  
 
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Noel unfortunately its seems to be an issue all over Europe. To be honest by the looks of the way Labour are conducting themselves its just as bad in the UK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47223692
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:33
  #4596 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I find that comment to be extremely distasteful and should justify action by the Mods.
Get yourself to school, Noel. I'm not saying anything that isn't well documented & out there. So why did you bring up Soros in the first place? Throughout this entire thread, you won't find another reference to him other than the one made by you & now you'd like me banned for pointing it out. First you can't argue your own position, then you respond by calling me an EU employee & now you try to get me thrown out. It's a bit craven, mate tbh.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.d329685c4cbe



Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Personally I think they are just using Ireland as political cosh.

Once it outlives it's use they will just drop it and shrug shoulders and say it's thier problem.
Your latest anti EU idea if I've got this correct is they're using Ireland as merely a tool to stuff the UK even though you know the UK's PM created the border problem with her red lines in the first place & the EU has spent two years negotiating a solution with the UK government. Can we really be so far down the rabbit hole that you've lost sight of the crisis as a whole?
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:36
  #4597 (permalink)  
 
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I don't see a crisis....

Anyway we will get to see in 44 days time.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:48
  #4598 (permalink)  
 
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tescoapp:
Personally I think they are just using Ireland as political cosh.
Correct! I can't find a reference to border customs posts anywhere in that Belfast Agreement.
virginblue: As the post above referred to requirements in respect of EU borders, then the point made to the effect that it (border) is the EU's responsibility is correct. I have made the point previously that if the UK wished they could just not bother with border installations, leaving the EU, if they insist on a border, to place one inside Ireland.
I sometimes get the impression that a lot of people are not familiar with land borders (with the obvious exceptions of AtNotts & Parapunter). Nowhere in the world have I encountered international borders where the Customs & Immigration of both countries all sit in one single building, sharing cups of tea. There is often quite some distance between the border posts of each side. (The funniest one I ever encountered was between Germany and the Czech Republic on the main road toward Pilsen. The 2 border posts were about a mile apart and, after leaving the German post, there was a parking area which was not in sight of either border post. Dozens of lorries and "shady" cars would be parked up there with number plate changing going on, helped by a lot of equally shady looking characters sorting out the paper work.)
On the other hand, a good example of a border with Customs etc only on one side was in the 1970s and the border between Botswana and Rhodesia. Leaving Botswana, there was nothing. After a mile or so of bumpy dirt road one came to the Rhodesian border, complete with a border guard (in a bush hat with lots of ostrich feathers) and a Customs building, staffed at the time I was there, by a young Scottish lady.
Parapunter: There you go again man, reading stuff that wasn't there with this
Amazing. There's your leaver in black & white saying they'll happily sacrifice the United Kingdom for Brexit
That was not the sentiment I read in the related post.
Seriously folks, I think a little spot of calming down is called for here. The heat, light and emotion is getting out of hand with everybody arguing passionately for their view. Nothing wrong with that but, when it starts to degenerate into personal attacks, slanging matches etc, it is time to recognise this sort of behaviour belongs in Westminster. As there is sod all any of us can do about things for now, why don't we all just sit back and stoically accept that whatever happens, happens.
I wonder if John Bercow would fancy a job moderating this lot?
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 14:57
  #4599 (permalink)  
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the EU has spent two years negotiating a solution with the UK government.
I thought it was the other way around. The EU had a position 2 years or more ago and HMG has been trying ineffectually to change it. Realistically we never had a negotiating position.

While I was criticised some while back, I believe that the majority that voted believed, as Farage stated the next day, out was out immediately.

That is what leavers gained a majority for and remainers failed at. Now years down the line all that has been achieved is uncertainty and late preparations by some companies to mitigate a potential disaster.

While Cameron got us into this mess and then jumped, May didn't help by delaying the application of Article 50 and achieving nothing useful before she did and being ineffective afterwards

If,at the outset after the election, they had actually worked out an orderly plan, declared Article 50, and then implemented the plan on the assumption that Brexit means Brexit, then we would have been in a New World Order already.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 15:10
  #4600 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post

While I was criticised some while back, I believe that the majority that voted believed, as Farage stated the next day, out was out immediately.
You'll presumably recall then that the ballot paper was a bit light on actual detail.


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
If,at the outset after the election, they had actually worked out an orderly plan, declared Article 50, and then implemented the plan on the assumption that Brexit means Brexit, then we would have been in a New World Order already.
Brexit means Brexit is meaningless. It's a sound bite, without substance. It cannot be analysed, built upon, pulled apart or have anything else done to it. It's unicornism up there with the usual wish list stuff - If only we'd done this, if only Theresa had done that, rinse & repeat.
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