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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 9th Feb 2019, 19:58
  #4361 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I've hear that the Dutch are really worried about losing their huge fresh food exports to Britain with the obvious detrimental effects to their industry. Do Tusk and Junker care? Or is their 'project' more important?
​​​​​​But we were told that any suggestions of trade holdups are just Project Fear.
Are you saying they are true after all, and more - there will be no imports at all from the Netherlands?
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 20:15
  #4362 (permalink)  
 
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Here it comes again. The zealots telling us Europe needs us more than we need them. The tone deaf underlying insinuation they'll rollover.in the end, because we're different, we're special,, at the exact same moment we see significant companies leaving for the single market. Relentless repetition of the same lie over and over.

Do you not get tired Noel, trotting out what David Davis was doing two years ago? Do you think anyone with a shred of critical thought swallows this rubbishr any longer? It's pitiful.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 20:40
  #4363 (permalink)  
 
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Negotiations following Brexit

Page 15 from the link below. From someone who is quite used to watching trade deals involving the EU. And this is if we leave WITH an agreement.

So I will make one extremely confident prediction for the post Brexit trade talks ahead, regardless of which Prime Minister we have and whether they espouse what is in the current Political Declaration or whether they profess to want a Canadian style deal. When we get into them, we will discover, at a granular level, just how bad it is to start from a (blank sheet) third country baseline on services. And we shall then spend a lot of negotiating capital and use a lot of concessions on other issues and the free movement of people question is, as we have seen, intimately linked to services provision, to try and lever up our level of market access into what used to be our home market to something nearer Single Market levels. What is dismal about our political debate is the inability to start that debate until it is upon us.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/european-insti...l_22012019.pdf

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Old 9th Feb 2019, 20:43
  #4364 (permalink)  
 
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“Do you not get tired..”. Well don’t you PP? I’m sorry you disagreed with the referendum result. Me too. But that doesn’t actually prove that everyone who disagrees with you is an imbecile.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 20:54
  #4365 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“Do you not get tired..”. Well don’t you PP? I’m sorry you disagreed with the referendum result. Me too. But that doesn’t actually prove that everyone who disagrees with you is an imbecile.
Well good. I didn't call anyone that now did I?
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 20:58
  #4366 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
...............


A clear rip-off of the "I promise to pay the NHS £350m/week" Boris notes that have been circulating for some time now. But a good addition to the meme.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 11:44
  #4367 (permalink)  
 
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Hey what happened to the dude who was going to get me with truisms? I was looking forward to it.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 11:48
  #4368 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Hey what happened to the dude who was going to get me with truisms? I was looking forward to it.
Calm down. The mods are getting restless.
​​​​
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 12:45
  #4369 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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So I will make one extremely confident prediction for the post Brexit trade talks ahead, regardless of which Prime Minister we have and whether they espouse what is in the current Political Declaration or whether they profess to want a Canadian style deal. When we get into them, we will discover, at a granular level, just how bad it is to start from a (blank sheet) third country baseline on services. And we shall then spend a lot of negotiating capital and use a lot of concessions on other issues and the free movement of people question is, as we have seen, intimately linked to services provision, to try and lever up our level of market access into what used to be our home market to something nearer Single Market levels. What is dismal about our political debate is the inability to start that debate until it is upon us.
A 'confident prediction' based upon a dream. The assumption that the remaining EU countries will toe the line and follow EU directives regarding trade deals with the UK is, I believe, a false one. What we are witnessing is, at least, the beginning of the considerable foreshortening of EU power and control, if not the beginning of the death throes of the EU and its inevitable collapse. It is the fear of these very real possibilities that scares the stalwarts of the EU and drives them to their present state of vindictiveness. The prospects of having their wings severely clipped, if not broken, and the removal of the overflowing trough that has fed them for years is just too much for this cabal of unelected misfits to bear.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 13:25
  #4370 (permalink)  
 
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UK would be better to stay away from the EU and do the others first. Its wasted enough time on the EU so far plus it also stops more of the stupider deals that the EU will try and force on the UK.

Tony Blair getting stuck in again I see.... that man does more for the leave cause than remain and the EU's.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 14:06
  #4371 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
UK would be better to stay away from the EU and do the others first. Its wasted enough time on the EU so far plus it also stops more of the stupider deals that the EU will try and force on the UK..
So, £90bn of our services are exported to the EU. The next 8 biggest markets just about add up to that figure. So we should just ignore it and ‘do others first’. Trade deals take time, a lot of time, which we won’t have the luxury of if we are limiting our access to our largest market.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 14:19
  #4372 (permalink)  
 
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If they carry on like they have been for the last two years its just a waste of time, emotions will be too high, better to wait and let things develop in the EU and emotions calm down plus I suspect there will be a more than a few changes of face to boot.

Then something sensible might happen.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 14:34
  #4373 (permalink)  
 
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The mods are getting restless
.
One is certainly sensitive.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 14:34
  #4374 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
UK would be better to stay away from the EU and do the others first. .
Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
. The assumption that the remaining EU countries will toe the line and follow EU directives regarding trade deals with the UK is, I believe, a false one..
It's an observable phenomenon that so much of the leave narrative is driven by irrationality, displacing logic to such an extent that we don't see in other arenas of debate. Both of the above quotes are merely wishful thinking & wholly ignorant of events, structures & reality, frankly.

44% of our trade is with the EU. The EU is right next door. No government in creation can afford to ignore this. Leavers by the bus load: Forget them, they're a bit emotional.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 14:38
  #4375 (permalink)  
 
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It seems that there is more desire in some quarters to see the EU fail than to see the UK succeed.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 15:48
  #4376 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
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Composite states under the lockdown control of small groups of ruling men have never worked out very well for the common man. The Irony is that the EU, under its federalist morphology from a trading group, has come to be exactly what de Gaulle and others devised it not to be, a vast mini power playing at being a super power. Historically, that kind of scenario has only ever had one ending. There have always been various routes to getting to that end and repression and lack of respect for the most basic tenets of democracy are always earl warning signs of the route ahead. The EU fits neatly into its historical skeletal main frame.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 16:05
  #4377 (permalink)  
 
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Tescoapp
as a relative newcomer to this forum I am curious...at the beginning of the Brexit process would you have settled for EEA membership as a destination? Many leavers that I came across were concerned with the EUs federalist ambitions. ‘Why didn’t it just stay as a trading agreement?’ is a question often asked.’that would have been fine’. It seems that the EEA option has been drowned out with all the noise over the last 2 years. I know it won’t happen now, I am just curious as to your position, and whether it has changed.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 16:42
  #4378 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect the EEA option was off the table once TM came up with her “red lines” (EEA membership brings Freedom of Movement back into the equation)....
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 17:09
  #4379 (permalink)  
 
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The common market was good, an umbrella of standards was more than sensible. After that it went down hill rapidly.

As said above EEA it brings other conditions which are extremely suspect.

Personally I don't want the EU to fail but I can't see it surviving in its current form. They need to split it into 3-4 economic groups. But that would defeat the purpose for 3-4 members.

EEA comes with ECJ oversight so unacceptable.

Last edited by tescoapp; 10th Feb 2019 at 17:19.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 17:20
  #4380 (permalink)  
 
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"What we are witnessing is, at least, the beginning of the considerable foreshortening of EU power and control, if not the beginning of the death throes of the EU and its inevitable collapse" - perhaps seen upside down from Australia

I can assure you that is there is a single grain of light in this awful business it is that NO-ONE in Europe will go down the same route as the Brits having seen what an unalterable shambles you've made of leaving and what horrible unknowns you still face...........................

As an Italian colleague said to me " God - if the British can make such a pigs ear of it imagine what it would be like if us or the Greeks tried it..."
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