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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 9th Feb 2019, 14:43
  #4341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Yes, I can say you are talking rubbish. Just making a wild statement is no evidence of truth.
Haha! Like I said, a leaver with even a sketch of a plan, sorry, sense of humour is a rare thing
Indeed.



Matt??? That's it? That's all you can come up with? A cartoonist? Oh mate.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 14:44
  #4342 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Yet another person who has so little faith in the abilities of the British people.

The foundations here are a lot older and much more sound. There are no 'internal border' delays. no constant rumbles of street trouble (believe it or not we actually speak to each other more than burning cars on the streets), no central threats of sanctions against any regional government, The starting point for the rebuilding is actually very good. And the British population are actually very good at getting on and doing just that.

But then there are those who have no confidence in the British people and feel that they need their hands held by their Continental cousins in order to be able to get anywhere. If you look at it all carefully there is a lot more reason to have confidence in your own people rather than in your very fractious cousins.
Perhaps you would like to answer the question then? Which of our elected representatives is going to lead us in the rebuilding of the UK as an independent trading nation?
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:00
  #4343 (permalink)  
 
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The idea of a poll in Northern Ireland seems to offer the prospect of a solution to Brexit though. As NI voted 56/44 to Remain then it would seem to offer everybody what they want. Apart from the DUP of course. But then they have Theresa's billion to ease the pain of parting.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:17
  #4344 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
The idea of a poll in Northern Ireland seems to offer the prospect of a solution to Brexit though. As NI voted 56/44 to Remain then it would seem to offer everybody what they want. Apart from the DUP of course. But then they have Theresa's billion to ease the pain of parting.
How about London then? A big majority to remain in the EU.
Or is the criterion only of expediency rather than voters' wishes?
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:37
  #4345 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Perhaps you would like to answer the question then? Which of our elected representatives is going to lead us in the rebuilding of the UK as an independent trading nation?
Too many people are bogged down into the 'fog' of the hear-and-now. Think of that same question in terms of how you would have asked, in September 1939, "Which of our elected representatives is going to lead us out of our current situation?" You most likely would not have come up with the correct answer. So I am not going to answer your question right now. Once the present squabbles are over an entirely new situation will develop: the "rebuilding of the UK as an independent trading nation" that you ask about. Who knows who will come to the fore? But the diverse thinking in this country that is seen as a weak point now will become one of Britain's big strengths once we all have that one goal of building the country up as the independent trading nation that it has the expertise to become very successfully. Who knows who might come to the fore to lead that? It might be as much of a surprise to many of us as has happened in the past. But I am confident in the nature of Britain and the British people that it will happen. One thing that I am sure is certain is that it will not be from the Chavez/Maduro-supporting fringe of british politics!

I'm sorry I haven't answered you question, but I'm sure (as a thinking person!) that you will appreciate my reasons.

However, about your most recent question: is London really British? Or is it largely 'owned' by that lot that according to some allegedly fund the paint on busses? (Please note: That is a huge 'wooden spoon allegation' to stir things up and watch the responses with amusement!)
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:38
  #4346 (permalink)  
 
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If I may.

Tokyo is confident that it can secure better terms from the UK than it did in negotiations with the much larger EU, and is not willing to duplicate the existing treaty precisely in either a bilateral deal or in talks for the UK to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership group.

“The new agreement is not just a copy-and-paste of the existing treaty,” said one Japanese official briefed on the talks. “The tariffs, rules and quotas need to be negotiated separately.”

The lack of progress on a future bilateral deal — a goal set out by prime minister Theresa May on a visit to Japan in August 2017 — highlights the UK’s broader struggle to roll over existing EU trade deals, let alone secure anything better.

This week, Britain’s Department for International Trade briefed 30 business groups on its failure to replicate “most” of the EU’s trade deals with other countries around the world.
F.T. O8/02/2019
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:42
  #4347 (permalink)  
 
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So in summary, just believe harder, someone will ride to the rescue & this will be all over soon (undefined period)

Tusk was bang on the money. Not a sketch of a plan.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:54
  #4348 (permalink)  
 
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Haters always gonna hate...
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 16:00
  #4349 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
Haters always gonna hate...
LOL!!!

Not even a week since you were in here calling people 'pure scum'. How can you have so little self awareness & still tie your shoelaces?!!
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 16:09
  #4350 (permalink)  
 
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That awkward moment when MP's explain why it was impossible to negotiate ... with their own government.

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Old 9th Feb 2019, 16:14
  #4351 (permalink)  
 
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And I think that it would be bang on the money to say that Tusk doesn't have a sketch of a plan on how to deal with the huge divisions within his empire. But let's not get sectarian about the place that could be reserved for him!

sfm818's post shows how the EU's shackles are a current restriction. And that other independent island trading nation, Japan, that also has one of the world's few top economies, could be a very good partner and 'example' for that rebuilding process.

Best get out of that structure that the surveyors' reports are showing so many cracks and fragility in order to be well outside it when it collapses.

And why do you have so little confidence in the British people? The only way to ensure that Britain doesn't progress is to look continuously and longingly over your shoulder at its EU past. Think ahead a bit more. There's a big world out there that doesn't want to condemn any of us to some unpleasant religious concept of theirs, tsk, tsk!
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 16:33
  #4352 (permalink)  
 
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Don't be sectarian says serious Noel, innmediately being sectarian. You might look at Japan but you failed to mention it's ten years of stagflation, lack of natural resources, wildly divergent economy from ours - various other apples compared to oranges.

And it may surprise you to learn I have so much faith in Britain, I opened my business here, as an actual trading business man, I'm as pragmatic as they come & that includes discounting the sheer lunacy of putting up barriers with the market that represents 44% of our global trade, helpfully on our doorstep.

The inverse is people like you who insist without any evidence but plenty of tropes that everyone across the channel is some relative of Darth Vader & every piece of inevitable bad news is project fear right up to the point at which it happens when it becomes exactly what you voted for. Qv Seaborne freight

. Not a sketch.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 16:49
  #4353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
...sfm818's post shows how the EU's shackles are a current restriction...
Restriction to what? Quality of life.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 17:06
  #4354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
The inverse is people like you who insist without any evidence but plenty of tropes that everyone across the channel is some relative of Darth Vader ....
There you go with your prejudices again. While I might have low opinions of the likes of Junker and Tusk I visit 'across the channel' regularly and find the vast majority of the people to be very pleasant, as I have found people in many other countries around the world to be. But your prejudices won't allow you to see that possibility.Ease off on your anger a bit. (And I have never said what I voted for!)

But what I do see is a political structure that is going to defeat its original aims due to appalling political leadership and a remoteness from their people. That is what I want to be away from, not the people that live there, nor the business that goes on there. We are far more likely to be able to be able to help them with the problems that are heading their way if we are independent. And that won't be the first time either.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 17:16
  #4355 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
However, about your most recent question: is London really British? Or is it largely 'owned' by that lot that according to some allegedly fund the paint on busses? (Please note: That is a huge 'wooden spoon allegation' to stir things up and watch the responses with amusement!)
I'm afraid your spoon was more paper than wood, and has no ability to stir

The vote in London to remain in the EU was by the resident electorate. The 'owners' you refer to had little or no participation in the vote.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 17:30
  #4356 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
There you go with your prejudices again. While I might have low opinions of the likes of Junker and Tusk I visit 'across the channel' regularly and find the vast majority of the people to be very pleasant, as I have found people in many other countries around the world to be. But your prejudices won't allow you to see that possibility.Ease off on your anger a bit. (And I have never said what I voted for!)
Opinions? Your own words you mean.
Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
. Secular Sectarian religious concepts like "a special place in hell" being held by top governing officials in their official pronouncements. And much, much more.
That's the thing about facts Noel, you can use them to prove stuff. If it's opinions you want, read your own posts where you imply heavily Macron#s domestic problems are an EU thing or the Italian/French ideological fall out is an EU thing, then stop for a moment & consider why you felt it necessary to suggest people who think you were sold a pup by a bunch of pantomime toffs from Eton are somehow lacking faith in Britain & various other tired lines you trot out like just so many Dad's Army repeats.

The when you've done all that, you might like to consider if you're general political outlook puts you in the same basket as the woman defending Hitler, the man who killed FGM legislation or the Minister who gave a contract to a shipping company with no ships, it might be time to rethink your politics.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 17:45
  #4357 (permalink)  
 
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I agree that jet blast is no place to change opinions and that many people made their mind up before the vote anyway.
However almost all polls of the wider population and lets face it jet blast doesn't really reflect that , have shown increasing swings to remain both because of greater awareness among the floating voters not committed quitters and the death of many older voters who tended to vote to run away and hide from the world. Trouble is project fear may not have come to pass yet but project pretty frightening has. Just today for example the FT , reports that trade talks with japan have stalled because they want a better deal from weak helpless Britain than the deal they have with the EU. hardly a surprise since we reneged on the deal to get their car makers to come here years ago and of course we have spent two years doing nothing except arguing since the referendum.

So we have no trade deals, an incompetent parliament, an incompetent government, a Prime Minister who I had quite admired until recently when she seems to have lost her marbles completely and would leave the Eu on 29th even if the Russians said they would invade the next day if we did-we are in no position to stop them now of course as Sqaure Rigged Sailing Ships, Infantry Squares and Thin Red Lines dont work in the 21st century.

And of course these useless Eu bureaucrats have run circles around our negotiators without really trying -lets face it is David Davis and Liam fox are your first team you might as well give in the moment the whistle blows

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Old 9th Feb 2019, 18:39
  #4359 (permalink)  
 
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According to the Dutch news, 42 companies relocated from the UK to The Netherlands in 2018. As a result, approximately 2000 new jobs were created.

Not a massive amount of movement but this has to be seen against a backdrop that the likelyhood of a deal being struck was reasonable.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 19:45
  #4360 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
... then stop for a moment & consider why you felt it necessary to suggest people who think you were sold a pup by a bunch of pantomime toffs from Eton are somehow lacking faith in Britain & various other tired lines you trot out like just so many Dad's Army repeats.
First thing is that you don't seem to have red the bit where I said that I haven't said how I voted.

Now about those 'toffs' and Dad's Army. I remember being quite impressed with the comments from a pleasant German lady who was a member of the Labour Party. But go on, stick to your prejudices. That seems to be your way.


I've hear that the Dutch are really worried about losing their huge fresh food exports to Britain with the obvious detrimental effects to their industry. Do Tusk and Junker care? Or is their 'project' more important?
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