Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 30th Jan 2019, 11:46
  #3801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
They sure were, I don't regret a minute, had amazing times in incredible places with fantastic people - the very stuff of life. Right then, back to the bloodletting.
Parapunter is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 11:53
  #3802 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Green Heart of Europe!
Age: 60
Posts: 231
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
virginblue,

And just to reinforce the farcical nature of Digby Jones's comments, BMW could go a long way to cushioning the blow that BMW Munich MIGHT suffer by relocating the Mini production line and it's 4,000 jobs from the UK to Germany, by relocating the 1,000 jobs at Swindon that make Mini body panels, and the 1,500 jobs at Birmingham that make MIni engines.
Airbus could also contribute by relocating the 14,000 odd wing jobs from the UK to France, Germany and Spain, along with the approx 100,000 associated jobs in the supply chain, and Volkswagen could do likewise by relocating 4,000 jobs from Crewe to other EU nations. The list goes on and on, Siemens, Thales, Ford etc etc etc.
And the UK could retaliate by threatening to move its automotive factories from France, Germany and Spain etc back to the UK couldn't it? Oh wait, there aren't any!
Whose shaking in their boots now?
CargoMatatu is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:28
  #3803 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,921
Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
The Brexit negotiators in Brussels have made it clear that the 'backstop' keeps the UK in the single market and customs union until the UK agrees a trade deal which keeps us in the single market and customs union - unable to negotiate independant trade agreements, under all EU regulation and unable to have any influence over those regulations. The UK would also be obliged to offer free access to UK markets to any country to which the EU signs a free trade agreement, but without reciprocal access to the other third-party country's markets. The Belgian EU Brexit team member interviewed on Radio 4 this morning made it clear that the integrity of the single market was of overriding importance, and any damage to the EU resulting from a no-deal exit was worth the pain, compared to a sensible border arrangement for NI and ROI. Why May thought the 'backstop' lock in to the single market and customs union would be acceptable is a mystery, maybe by burying it on page 63 of the 'agreement' then MPs might fall asleep before reaching it.

Both UK and ROI have made it clear that there will not be a hard border in the event of no deal. The EU have deliberately manoeuvred the UK into a position of a lock in to the single market, or no deal. They may not get what they wish for.
You may be interested to watch Simon Coveney's press conference currently airing to re-visit your view....
virginblue is online now  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:54
  #3804 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dundee
Posts: 8
Good Grief. It's like a 're run of the 24thJune 2016 again in here.

weemonkey is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:55
  #3805 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,004
You may be interested to watch Simon Coveney's press conference currently airing to re-visit your view....
I refer the honourable member to the evidence of Miss Mandy Rice-Davies
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 13:09
  #3806 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,877
“Who’s shaking in their boots.,”? Hopefully everyone.

Corbyn’s stance gets more outlandish by the day. In advance of the near-impossible task May faces next week he wants her to publicly rule out no-deal (having personally blocked every deal on offer). To what possible end other than to weaken an already poor negotiating position?
ShotOne is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 13:15
  #3807 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,921
Why would May need Corbyn after all? She is the Prime Minister and as such supposed to have a majority in the HoC Pretty lame if she has to rely on the opposition to get her deals passed by the HoC. It is not the opposition's job to do the government's work.
virginblue is online now  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 13:30
  #3808 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,004
Why would May need Corbyn after all? She is the Prime Minister and as such supposed to have a majority in the HoC Pretty lame if she has to rely on the opposition to get her deals passed by the HoC. It is not the opposition's job to do the government's work.
Political smoke and mirrors. She wants to be seen to be listening and appear reasonable.
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 14:30
  #3809 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,877
“not the opposition’s job...”. Certainly not their job to block any and every government effort to resolve a crucial national issue while offering no alternative.
ShotOne is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 14:46
  #3810 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“not the opposition’s job...”. Certainly not their job to block any and every government effort to resolve a crucial national issue while offering no alternative.
But Brexit doesn't figure in Corbyn's priorities. He is only interested in the election.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 14:58
  #3811 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 54
Posts: 0
I think it does otherwise he can't re-nationalise the railways. Or do a few others things if subjected to EU rules.

​​​​​​
tescoapp is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 15:03
  #3812 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,921
Theresa May has negotiated a deal as the Conservative PM on behalf of the tory government. Corbyn had no say in the deal, he was not at the negotiating table and was not consulted. I don't think it is reasonable to expect from him to come to the rescue of the PM who is unable to get her own people behind her deal. Blame the DUP, blame the ERG, blame May's stupidity/stubbornness, but not the opposition. If Tories point a finger in the direction of Corbyn, four fingers are pointing in their own direction....

Last edited by virginblue; 30th Jan 2019 at 15:31.
virginblue is online now  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 15:14
  #3813 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
This is a national crisis. Ignoring the extremists convinced about Euro armies & federal super states (Zzzzz) we have a scenario ongoing which isn't war or a pandemic or rioting on the streets in which we see Government hoovering up transport capacity, building vast holding areas for trucks, freezers by the container load, large employers leaving or warning they could leave, putting the army on standby & somehow all of this is normalised in people's thinking.

If ever there were a cross party issue, this is it. If ever we were so unfortunate to have two political pygmies at the head of things at the same time, it's now.Oh for an Atlee or even an old schemer like Walpole.
Parapunter is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 15:33
  #3814 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 71
Posts: 660
If the UK leaves without agreement, then a hard border must be implemented.
Says who? If the UK decides not to bother with a border, that is entirely up to the UK, not the EU and not Ireland. On the other hand, should the EU or Ireland feel a border is necessary, then that is up to them. So long as it is created a yard or so on the Irish side of the geographical border.
Contrary to popular belief, (and Mr Varadkar in particular), the Good Friday agreement makes no mention of borders, hard or soft, other than in terms of the UK getting rid of observation posts etc that were set up and manned during the 'troubles'.
Tescoapp: What makes you think EU rules re nationalisation make any difference to ownership of our railways? Other than Virgin, I think it is fair to say almost all of our railways are nationalised. Owned by governments in France, Germany and Holland. Same goes for utilities. That's one of the oddities about the EU that annoys me. They say not a word re foreign governments owning industries, yet when Poland joined the EU, no time was wasted telling the flourishing, post Communist, ship building yards that they had to be divested and closed down.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 15:37
  #3815 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,877
“If ever there were a cross-party issue this is it”. -YES!
ShotOne is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 15:38
  #3816 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Says who? If the UK decides not to bother with a border, that is entirely up to the UK, not the EU and not Ireland. On the other hand, should the EU or Ireland feel a border is necessary, then that is up to them. So long as it is created a yard or so on the Irish side of the geographical border.
Contrary to popular belief, (and Mr Varadkar in particular), the Good Friday agreement makes no mention of borders, hard or soft, other than in terms of the UK getting rid of observation posts etc that were set up and manned during the 'troubles'.
.
Four hours ago.

Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
The UK & ROI have expressed a desire to have no hard border. If the UK leaves without agreement, then a hard border must be implemented.

The backstop is a guarantee of regulatory alignment between the UK & the EU. If you remove it, it is no longer a guarantee. If the EU no longer has a guarantee along it's border, then the only way to ensure a flow of permissible goods into the EU is by creating a border.

I would remind you there is no country in the world operating an open border between customs territories. You can look, but you won't find one. I would further remind you that having agreed to a backstop in the withdrawal agreement, the UK has now reneged & must be looked upon as an unreliable partner by the European union. And I use the words 'unreliable' in place of the equally acceptable ' pack of f******g clowns'.
Parapunter is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 15:38
  #3817 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,921
This is a national crisis. Ignoring the extremists convinced about Euro armies & federal super states (Zzzzz) we have a scenario ongoing which isn't war or a pandemic or rioting on the streets in which we see Government hoovering up transport capacity, building vast holding areas for trucks, freezers by the container load, large employers leaving or warning they could leave, putting the army on standby & somehow all of this is normalised in people's thinking.

If ever there were a cross party issue, this is it. If ever we were so unfortunate to have two political pygmies at the head of things at the same time, it's now.Oh for an Atlee or even an old schemer like Walpole.
I see your point. Nevertheless, Corbyn is getting all the flak while those right-wing extremists from Theresa May#s own party seem to treated with a lot of forebearance by many as they are either seen as men of principle or excentrics.

The EU once again shows how it should work. The European Parliament has a Brexit Steering Group composed of representatives from all parties to guarantee that the Parliament speaks with one voice in this matter of utmost importance and that liaises with the other EU institutions. A good example that the UK's first past the post, two party parliament is a difficult concept as it does not encourage thinking outside the box and leads to ingrained patterns of behaviour.

Says who? If the UK decides not to bother with a border, that is entirely up to the UK, not the EU and not Ireland. On the other hand, should the EU or Ireland feel a border is necessary, then that is up to them. So long as it is created a yard or so on the Irish side of the geographical border.
Contrary to popular belief, (and Mr Varadkar in particular), the Good Friday agreement makes no mention of borders, hard or soft, other than in terms of the UK getting rid of observation posts etc that were set up and manned during the 'troubles'.
There is a hard border at every single mile of the EU's border with a non-EU member state. It follows from that there will be a hard border between N.I. and the RoI if N.I. no longer follows the same rules it followed while in the EU, but rules different than those applicable in the RoI. And we are not talking about a Trump-style wall when it comes to a "hard border", but about custom rules, regulation, free movement etc.
virginblue is online now  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 16:13
  #3818 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 54
Posts: 0
Corybn doesn't want a deal. He wants UK out no restrictions on what he can or cannot do and no payments either.

The NI border issue he will solve by just getting rid of it.

Then watch the Irish pm poo himself and the blood start flowing.
tescoapp is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 16:39
  #3819 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Right here, right now
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by Cpt_Pugwash View Post
Shamelessly lifted from my local town forum ( with thanks to Maxi) -
" BREXIT EXPLAINED
David Cameron made a promise he didn't think he'd have to keep to have a referendum he didn't think he would lose."
It then forgot to add that Parliament were asked to decide whether or not a referendum on UK membership of the EU should be held. On 9th June 2015 the House of Commons (that is all sides, not a single person or a single party) overwhelmingly agreed, by 544 to 53, to hold said referendum. This was backed up by the House of Lords on 14th December that year.

Originally Posted by Cpt_Pugwash View Post
"Theresa May who didn't vote for Brexit got the job of making it happen.

She called the election she said she wouldn't and lost the majority David Cameron hadn't expected to win in the first place. She triggered Article 50 when we didn't need to"
Again, that seems to forget that Parliament, not Theresa May or the Conservative Party, held a democratic vote of all members. On 1st February 2017 the House of Commons decided, by 494 to 122, that Article 50 should be triggered. The House of Lords submitted 2 amendments to the Act, but they were voted down by the House of Commons and the Act to trigger Article 50 was passed by Parliament on 13th March 2017. Article 50 was triggered on 29 March 2017.

Article 50 decrees that a period of 2 years shall elapse for negotiations to take place. If, at the end of that 2 year period, no deals have been agreed then the triggering country leaves the EU without any deal (the default position to which the majority of Parliament signed up to when they passed the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017) or all other remaining EU states unanimously agreed to extend the negotiation period by an agreed fixed length.


So, for complete fairness and accuracy, I think you should go back onto your local town forum and correct the post you quoted
MFC_Fly is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 16:49
  #3820 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
Nick Boles yesterday: I voted for the ref & art 50. I now understand much more than I did then. The argument that Parliament knew exactly what they were doing then is as weak as the one leavers bandy about insisting they knew exactly what they were voting for, up to but not limited to a ferry company with no boats, forty million freezers on the public purse, the Kent countryside tarmaced over and so on.

Last edited by Parapunter; 30th Jan 2019 at 17:00.
Parapunter is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.