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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 29th Jan 2019, 21:00
  #3721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Remarkable to witness the rare double feat of failing to grasp what just happened & still stay completely deluded on the future.
Putting it in bold may impress his school chums but just doesn't do anything here.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 21:27
  #3722 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Putting it in bold may impress his school chums but just doesn't do anything here.
it can't be easy being a die hard Remainer right now. One of the last big hopes has just flunked, and the options are narrowing to either Leave with a deal of sorts, or just Leave (no deal). I feel sure there's still a few last desperate acts to play out, on either side, but it's now the EU that has some serious thinking to do - unless they believe no deal is preferable of course?
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 21:35
  #3723 (permalink)  
 
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If you really believe that, then you are truly as deluded as the meme generator above you. And why would you, as I presume, a grown, come here repeatedly to sneer & goad people? Do you think it works? That you will be better thought of? It's not even worthy of the lower sixth, much less a political discussion between adults.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 21:42
  #3724 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yotty View Post
Not sure what Sir Ivan means when he says
"because WTO terms are so unpalatable and the damage from going there so asymmetrical-much worse for the UK than the EU" That needs challenging!. And wasn't he the chap that while at dinner with his EU chums said "oh don't go for 20bn for the divorce settlement the UK could easily afford 40bn?

i think he explains his reasoning behind the assymetry in pages 11 to 14 quite well. Hence the whole document is worth a good read. Regarding your quote which may or may not be a quote, he was on the record as suggesting the EU might be looking for 40 to 60 billion Euros, but that was in the context of using our debt to them as leverage in negotiations, since our leaving gives them a financial black hole
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 21:45
  #3725 (permalink)  
 
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If I were Tusk, I'd be looking on at today's farcical u-turns galore & thinking that's why we need a backstop,
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 21:54
  #3726 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
it's now the EU that has some serious thinking to do - unless they believe no deal is preferable of course?
“Now...serious thinking” .....don’t make me laugh, that happened ages ago (Westminster aside).

.The problem as seen from the EU end is that the EU and the likes of Barnier were the only ones doing the serious thinking months ago, when trying to do business with likes of David “call me bone ldle” Davis....And eventually we even got as far as the EU and the U.K. in the shape of TM managing to hatch out a WA..yes, we do actually have a Withdrawal Agreement, remember?

But now we know however the Government plays this the disaster capitalists of the Tory party, aka the ERG, want to string things out until the end of March, at which point I suspect TM will have the rug pulled out from under her and out the U.K. goes...It’s becoming apparent the extreme Brexiter Tories have absolutely no interest in reaching a deal and now the EU know it..

I rather suspect after tonight the EU has moved on from serious thinking about keeping the U.K. “in” , it’s a waste of effort, and are now into very serious thinking about how to handle the U.K. as a off shore competitor and how to protect the whole of the EU27 post-Brexit....I certainly don’t think Barnier, Tusk, et. al. are going to be losing sleep tonight worrying about how to keep the UK inside the EU, that, if it ever happened, stopped a long time ago...
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:01
  #3727 (permalink)  
 
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Genuinely believe if a no-deal hard brexit comes about that it was deliberately engineered that way - even that sounds more convincing than the inept circus I keep reading about daily - where farce reaches such heights that even John Crace can't keep up, totally unbelievable.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:04
  #3728 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


“Now...serious thinking...don’t make me laugh..

.The problem as seen from the EU end is that it was the only party tomthis doing the serious thinking months ago, when trying to do business with likes of David “call me bone ldle” Davis....Don’t forget EU and TM even managed to hatch out the WA..remember? But they know however the Government plays this the disaster capitalists of the Tory party, aka the ERG, want to string things out until the end of March, at which point I suspect TM will have the rug pulled out from under her and out the U.K. goes....The Brexiter Tories have absolutely no interest in reaching a deal and the EU know it..

I rather suspect after tonight the EU has moved on from serious thinking about keeping the U.K. “in” , it’s a waste of effort and are now into very serious thinking about how to handle the U.K. as a off shore competitor and how to protect the whole of the EU27 post-Brexit....Incettainly don’t think Barnier, Tusk, et. al. are going to be losing sleep tonight worrying about how to keep the UK inside the EU, that, if it ever happened, stopped a long time ago...
You're right of course. They came to that position long ago. May will go to Brussels again and come back empty handed again. The time for negotiation is long past and I don't understand why she keeps knocking her head against that particular wall.

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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:13
  #3729 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Genuinely believe if a no-deal hard brexit comes about that it was deliberately engineered that way - even that sounds more convincing than the inept circus I keep reading about daily - where farce reaches such heights that even John Crace can't keep up, totally unbelievable.
May succeeds Cameron, draws red lines, realises belatedly she's created an insoluble problem in Northern Ireland, loses majority in ill conceived GE, becomes prisoner of the DUP & ERG insisting on full, British brexit blah, blah, blah.

Comes up with Chequers, tries, genuinely to be all things to all men, including not shafting the economy & sending NI back to the 1970's, it rapidly becomes apparent the deal can't work, & would split the Tory party, various contrivances & resprays follow ending up today with a flimsy mandate to go back to Brussels, in full & certain knowledge they won't budge et voila,! No deal, the Tories are saved (for now) and the EU get the blame for their 'intransigence'

Like that?
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:18
  #3730 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I don't understand why she keeps knocking her head against that particular wall.
My guess: Stubbornness, blind loyalty to the Tory Party, and being encouraged to carry on by some men in grey suits who stand to profit greatly from Brexit but aren’t prepared to step up and doing the hard graft themselves.

She’ll be gone in the blink of an eye once she’s outlived her usefulness.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:30
  #3731 (permalink)  
 
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Watching the goings on in Parliament today, one thing became very clear; Theresa May has just committed political harikari. By embracing tonight's amendment and promising she will now go to Brussels etc etc on a mission she knows she can not win, she is looking at the end of the road. I certainly won't cry when she returns from Brussels, wringing her hands and no doubt claiming she has done really well, despite the words of the EU still ringing in her ears "bugger off and never darken our doorstep again". As an old mate of mine used to say "How can she be stupid with only one head?"
Surely, an intelligent person would have had wide ranging discussions with all parties before setting out on this road, rather than assuming that if her cabinet are behind her, then things will work out just dandy? Imagine what it must have done to her ego when she came back from Brussels with her "Brexit in our time" piece of paper, saying "haven't I done well?" only to find that virtually every politician responded with "No. You bloody haven't!"
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:36
  #3732 (permalink)  
 
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No deal, the Tories are saved (for now) and the EU get the blame for their 'intransigence'
When the proverbial will hit the fan, they’ll blame the EU. That’s been their plan since the beginning...
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:50
  #3733 (permalink)  
 
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The EU has to keep the UK trapped in the cu or a deal is pointless. Even the cash pales into insignificance in relation to that point.

Yes it has been engineered if they had declared no deal at the beginning then it would have given too much time for it to be prevented. Now it's pretty easy to just run the clock down and ignore the whinging.

The perfect storm with the trade wars and recession becoming more likely just after UK leaves has been more luck than anything else.

May knows she is gone and won't have to deal with post exit. Extension will just lengthen the time until she gets her seat in the Lord's and can start doing the speaking circuit and consulting. She knows fine she won't get a job with the EU which ever way it goes.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 23:50
  #3734 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Tescoapp
The nautical mile went metric.
Er, not quite.

Without having to resort to spherical trigonometry, linear distance in marine and air navigation still is most easily defined as 60NM equalling one degree of longitude measured at the equator. So, mercifully, ASIs and other stuff are not metricated. The system has worked very satisfactorily since Mercator.

Last edited by Gipsy Queen; 30th Jan 2019 at 00:14.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 04:39
  #3735 (permalink)  
 
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Genuinely disturbing to witness the mother of all parliaments cease to function. Voting down the Cooper amendment was the last chance to save the country from itself. The cost will be high.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 05:03
  #3736 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


My guess: Stubbornness, blind loyalty to the Tory Party, and being encouraged to carry on by some men in grey suits who stand to profit greatly from Brexit but aren’t prepared to step up and doing the hard graft themselves.

She’ll be gone in the blink of an eye once she’s outlived her usefulness.
Give her affinity for "U" turns, and flushed with success ( see link ) it wouldn't come as a surprise to see her now decide to lead the Tory party in to the next GE after all......
There again, she will probably be gone faster than out of date stock at Waitrose being taken of the shelves.....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ckstop-cartoon

In the interim, she's endeared herself to thousands of Mail / Excess readers with their suitably "triumphant " jingoism.....thoughtfully not actually mentioning the EU have made it clear their stance hasn't changed and is unlikely to do so over the next two weeks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47051016
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 05:04
  #3737 (permalink)  
 
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John Crace’s take on last night’s events....and Corbyn rightly gets a kicking from him, not just the Tories

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-plan-c-minus
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 05:41
  #3738 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BONES_ View Post


When the proverbial will hit the fan, they’ll blame the EU. That’s been their plan since the beginning...
Your blind loyalty is inspiring. Thank you.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 05:43
  #3739 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
If you really believe that, then you are truly as deluded as the meme generator above you. And why would you, as I presume, a grown, come here repeatedly to sneer & goad people? Do you think it works? That you will be better thought of? It's not even worthy of the lower sixth, much less a political discussion between adults.
You missed out the generic knuckle dragger, racist, xenophobe etc, but the thought was there....
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 06:29
  #3740 (permalink)  
 
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Yes it's been a farce, May has been inept from day 1 and Corbyn has been almost invisible, just basically a bystander making no attempt to influence proceedings.

But why pretend the EU has this God given right to just stuff it to us? Well OK they do, but that means no deal, and last night simply confirmed that fact. So no extensions, no revocation, definitely no 2nd ref. Just no deal! And all, as one commentator highlighted, over one line in a 585 page doc.

Nobody (very few sensible people anyway) wants no deal, but the EU has it's part to play as well, in my opinion.
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