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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 29th Jan 2019, 09:22
  #3661 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


Well with the current crop of clowns in Westminster I reckon some of them would even vote for that

Thanks for the correction
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 09:29
  #3662 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
The mature view would be recognition that 52/48 is an insufficiently narrow margin on a poorly designed plebiscite to set the country on a radical new course, more so when you take into account electoral participation &. Sadly, we have seen irrational commitment to it in the face of empirical evidence of lasting damage, reputational impairment and a disregard of the wishes of just under half the electorate. People like me are here complaining daily because the mandate is illusory & worse, the future flowing from it is plainly appalling,
And who do you suppose would articulate this mature view? Would it be the same mature parliamentarians who voted overwhelmingly to call a referendum including the terms and the simple in/out vote and then went on to overwhelmingly vote to leave the EU?
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 09:34
  #3663 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
how does that stand with you?
Perversely, given my views in general on this, I'm not that big a fan of a second ref but I appreciate the thought you've given it, it's a refreshing change from the headbangers, of which of course, depending on your point of view, I am one...

I see no deal, May's deal, extend article 50. I don't see a 2nd ref & I'm not particularly opposed to the criticisms of it but if it were to happen, I think you're right, it should be framed much more carefully than Cameron's shockingly thought through in/out question, a threshold would be necessary & what exactly do you ask? We have no clear message from Parliament & certainly not one from the electorate. 52/48 is the epitome of a country saying to itself - not really sure to be honest, no matter how often the Andrew N's of this world try to tell you a clear democratic mandate was given.

The only outcome I sincerely wish to avoid is no deal & on that, the actions of the Government absolutely scream party before country.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 09:39
  #3664 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
And now we have this disgraceful mess where nobody knows what is going to be happening at the end of March.
Welcome to All Fools' Day.
​​​​​
You never know what the future holds......

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...brexit-cartoon

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Old 29th Jan 2019, 09:44
  #3665 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
The only outcome I sincerely wish to avoid is no deal & on that, the actions of the Government absolutely scream party before country.
That's why the referendum was held in the first place.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 09:47
  #3666 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
That's why the referendum was held in the first place.
True but only in the narrow sense of appeasing the loony wrecking brigade of the Tories. The Brexit we are facing is a result of the choices made by the Prime minister, that should never be forgotten.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 10:08
  #3667 (permalink)  
 
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If there is a by election in Peterborough it will be an interesting one. It's a seat that has traditionally been a bellweather - it's gone to the party forming the government until 2017.

However in 2017 the main difference was that UKIP didn't field a candidate, having taken 16% of the vote in 2015. So it seems that somewhat counter intuitively the UKIP vote split in favour of Labour. It couldn't have been the LD vote because that was already flatlining in 2015.

What would happen in 2019? Well if the current MP gets porridge we could possibly have Thursday 28 March as an election date. Might be interesting.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 11:58
  #3668 (permalink)  
 
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So let's see what we have today:
British nationals who have retired to EU countries including Spain and France will no longer have their health care covered by the NHS in the event of no deal, the government has confirmed.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...no-deal-brexit
In short, they will have to take care of themselves abroad or return to the UK for treatment - which will be much dearer for the NHS than simply refunding Spain etc.

What a relief that the NHS will have another 350m GBP to spend each week as per the red bus.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:07
  #3669 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy View Post
The consequences of most UK general elections lead to a disregard of the wishes of just under half the electorate.
Not really, certainly under half of those that bother to vote.

Could we follow the Australian model with compulsory voting?

Should we shut bars at during polling hours?
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:10
  #3670 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
or return to the UK for treatment - which will be much dearer for the NHS than simply refunding Spain etc..
You make the assumption that they would be entitled to free NHS treatment.

Like so many statements here they lack the caveat IF . . . As we simply do not know yet.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:18
  #3671 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
You make the assumption that they would be entitled to free NHS treatment.

Like so many statements here they lack the caveat IF . . . As we simply do not know yet.
From the Expat Network

Overseas visitors who need healthcare while in England are now being charged differently for using the NHS

The way the NHS charges these visitors has been changed so that it does not lose out on income from migrants, visitors and former residents of the UK who have left, who should all pay for their care while in the country.

Within the UK, free NHS treatment is provided on the basis of someone being ‘ordinarily resident’. It is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, national insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK.

The changes, which came into effect from April, affect visitors and former UK residents differently, depending on where they now live.

People Living In An EEA Country Or Switzerland.

As is the case already, most people, who live or work in another European Economic Area (EEA) country or Switzerland will continue to get free NHS care using a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) issued by the country in which they live. This means the NHS can reclaim healthcare costs from the original country of residence.

UK state pensioners who live elsewhere in the EEA will now have the same rights to NHS care as people who live in England. This applies to all pensioners who receive a UK state retirement pension and registered for healthcare in Europe with an S1 form.

However, people who live elsewhere in the EEA or Switzerland who are not working and are under the UK retirement age should either use their EHIC if they’re entitled to one, or make sure they have health insurance if they need NHS care when visiting England. Otherwise they will have to pay for their care. This includes former UK residents.

People Living Outside The EEA

People who live outside the EEA, including former UK residents, should now make sure they are covered by personal health insurance, unless an exemption applies to them. Anyone who does not have insurance will be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff for any care they receive.

The NHS tariff price for a normal maternity birth is £2,188. For a major hip operation with an intermediate stay in hospital it is £7,826. So for non-residents without proper insurance cover these would cost £3,282 and £11,739 respectively.

Non-residents should also make sure their health insurance plan provides cover while in the UK as well as in their expat location.

Exemptions

There are several groups of people who are exempt from charging, or entitled to free care because they remain ordinarily resident despite spending time outside the UK. UK Crown servants, British Council or Commonwealth War Graves staff, those working in UK government-funded posts overseas, and the spouse/civil partner and children under 18 of these people, are exempt from charging if they were ordinarily resident prior to leaving the UK for that purpose. Those who were not ordinarily resident in the UK before taking up such a post will be charged.

There is also no change for armed forces members, war pensioners and armed forces compensation scheme recipients and their families, who are not required to have formerly been an ordinary resident of the UK.

Returning To The UK To Settle

Citizens who return to the UK on a settled basis will be classed as ordinarily resident, and will be eligible for free NHS care immediately.


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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:21
  #3672 (permalink)  
 
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The above will, to the best of my knowledge, require a "deal". Hard Brexit = no deal = no EHIC.

Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
You make the assumption that they would be entitled to free NHS treatment..
Well, I did not assume that the UK would leave the EU and by doing so, scupper health care for its retirees abroad without making sure that they will have alternative coverage through the UK's NHS. But indeed, letting them die like flies may be a smarter solution.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:24
  #3673 (permalink)  
 
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Latest news:
​​​​​​
"May will ask EU to reopen Brexit deal"
​​​​​​
I hope she doesn't hold her breath waiting for a positive answer, or we'll be needing a new PM..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47037365
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:26
  #3674 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
If there is a by election in Peterborough it will be an interesting one. It's a seat that has traditionally been a bellweather - it's gone to the party forming the government until 2017.

However in 2017 the main difference was that UKIP didn't field a candidate, having taken 16% of the vote in 2015. So it seems that somewhat counter intuitively the UKIP vote split in favour of Labour. It couldn't have been the LD vote because that was already flatlining in 2015.

What would happen in 2019? Well if the current MP gets porridge we could possibly have Thursday 28 March as an election date. Might be interesting.
Three months in the chokey, she won't be voting tonight then.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:27
  #3675 (permalink)  
 
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Returning To The UK To Settle

Citizens who return to the UK on a settled basis will be classed as ordinarily resident, and will be eligible for free NHS care immediately.
I hope they've repaired the mole at Dunkirk, where going to need it.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:28
  #3676 (permalink)  
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Well the Peterborough MP only got 3 months so no by election but it means one less vote for labour over Brexit.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:31
  #3677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Latest news:
​​​​​​
"May will ask EU to reopen Brexit deal"
​​​​​​
I hope she doesn't hold her breath waiting for a positive answer, or we'll be needing a new PM..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47037365
there is no Brexit deal just complete assimilation of the UK into EU regions.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:31
  #3678 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Well, I did not assume that the UK would leave the EU and by doing so, scupper health care for its retirees abroad without making sure that they will have alternative coverage through the UK's NHS. .
You assume our civil servants would act with speed and compassion.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:54
  #3679 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
So let's see what we have today:


In short, they will have to take care of themselves abroad or return to the UK for treatment - which will be much dearer for the NHS than simply refunding Spain etc.

What a relief that the NHS will have another 350m GBP to spend each week as per the red bus.
Do you know what the arrangements for Spanish and French nationals living in the UK will be after Brexit?
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 13:12
  #3680 (permalink)  
 
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Excellent news, Fiona Onasanya HMP... formally known as Fiona Onasanya MP

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-47040912
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