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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:45
  #3621 (permalink)  
 
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Who pays for that? Are you aware of commercial pallet storage rates? RH&D prices? Who builds the warehouses? Who works in them & at what rates? How do you stockpile lettuce? If you can't stockpile it, what does airfreight add to the cost?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:58
  #3622 (permalink)  
 
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you will pay for it para at the checkout.

And it was more the famers in spain and Greece I was thinking of. I am sure they will think of something for the French and German Farmers.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:09
  #3623 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Who pays for that? Are you aware of commercial pallet storage rates? RH&D prices? Who builds the warehouses? Who works in them & at what rates? How do you stockpile lettuce? If you can't stockpile it, what does airfreight add to the cost?
My draft response to your earlier question disappeared in cyberspace but your post above addresses what I had written.

These T can indeed be stretched but a company I was going to cite had to extend its lines of credit to buy in more materials and of course warehouse the material. It diverts their cash from business expansion and also reduces bank liquidity.

Once the new, longer logistics chain is operating then things will settle at a new normal rate with that extra credit as an additional, on going overhead.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:15
  #3624 (permalink)  
 
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Words are so easy to type, aren't they, PN?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:20
  #3625 (permalink)  
 
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Have you ever thought about allowing a bit more T in your JIT procedure? After all, I am sure you do not allow the same amount of T for parts manufactured in Asia that need to be shipped to you by sea as you do for parts from a factory next door to you. So if the T in JIT is already designed to cope with different periods then adjust it accordingly to allow for delays at point of entry from the EU, just as you do now for any delays at point of entry from your Asian suppliers.
Don't you think Sainsbury, Tesco, Lidl, Waitrose, you name them, who have all signed the letter to MPs, have given this a thought? Ater all, they are logistics experts, unlike Camp Jet Blast.

But maybe some experts here come up with practical, cost-neutral solutions for some of the problems that immediately come to mind: If you have trucks waiting for days to get inspected in France before being allowed to leave the EU, how do you replace that freight capacity? That is nothing the supply chain caters for. Plus if trucking stuff from Spain to the UK takes longer in the future, factoring in this delay in does not really help to keep the produce fresh (plus trucks and drivers need to be paid for, regardless whether wheels are turning or not, driving costs up). There will be more waste, driving prices up. Or more air freight, driving prices up.

But maybe that was all envisaged by Camp Brexit: A good excuse for not having to eat healthy fruit and veg any more and being forced to tuck into ever more preprocessed junk food. So thank goodness the NHS will have 350m GBP on top each week as a result of Brexit so that it can take care of the results.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:22
  #3626 (permalink)  
 
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Doesn't really matter what's typed it isn't going to change what happens in the next 60 days.

There has been poo spouted for the last 670 days and cock all has changed.

Or here is a novelty the UK could eat what our own farmers produce and eat seasonal vegetables just like most other countries do in the Eu at present.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:22
  #3627 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
My draft response to your earlier question disappeared in cyberspace but your post above addresses what I had written.

These T can indeed be stretched but a company I was going to cite had to extend its lines of credit to buy in more materials and of course warehouse the material. It diverts their cash from business expansion and also reduces bank liquidity.

Once the new, longer logistics chain is operating then things will settle at a new normal rate with that extra credit as an additional, on going overhead.
Or, as the BRC puts it:
As prudent businesses we are stockpiling where possible, but all frozen and chilled storage is already being used and there is very little general warehousing space available in the UK. Even if there were more space it is impossible to stockpile fresh produce, such as salad lea ves and fresh fruit.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:26
  #3628 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cpt_Pugwash View Post
I did not see the programme referred to here, but I found this quite interesting.
." On BBC Question Time, a member of the audience in Winchester made a particularly pertinent point: The 52%-48% referendum result wouldn’t even be sufficient to change the constitution of your local golf club.
And it’s true. In most democratic clubs and institutions, a result of 52% to 48% wouldn't be enough to change their constitutions.Indeed, in democratic countries that hold referendums on important issues, a super majority would usually be required to effect major change. A result of 52%-48% wouldn’t cut it.Nor would only 37% of the electorate voting for change enable that change to take place.

▪ Why is 37% significant? Because that was the proportion of the electorate that voted for Brexit – a minority.

The majority of voters either voted for Remain or didn’t vote. In most democratic countries that hold referendums, those who don’t vote do count – they count as a vote for the status quo. Otherwise it would mean a minority dictating the future of a country.(And that’s exactly what’s happening with Brexit – a minority has been given power to decide that Britain will go ahead with Brexit, even though most of the UK didn’t specifically support Brexit. Indeed, two out of the four countries of our union of the United Kingdom specifically voted against it.) There seem to be many double standards with the 2016 referendum. ▪ Just 37% of the electorate were allowed to impose Brexit on Britain. And yet, only 37% of the members of UKIP, or the Labour or Tory parties, wouldn’t be sufficient to change their constitutions. ▪ Under UK law, just 37% of a trade union’s members wouldn’t be sufficient to call a strike.

▪ Just 37% of MPs wouldn't be sufficient to call for an early general election (two-thirds of all MPs are required for that).

As the wise woman in the QT audience said about the Brexit result:“That’s why we continue to want to talk about it, and that is why with all the extra information that people now have, that they didn’t have at the time, there are many people who would change their vote.”Panellist and ardent Brexiter, the LBC973 presenter Nick Ferrari, amazingly agreed with the woman in the audience that a result of 52% to 48% wouldn’t be enough to change the constitution of a golf club. “You’re right,” he said. But he then added that since the referendum, there had been a general election “and more than 80% of the electorate voted for parties that wanted to deliver Brexit.” It’s nonsense, of course, to conflate the referendum result with the 2017 general election. People didn’t specifically vote Tory or Labour in that election because they supported Brexit. For sure, most Labour voters and members don’t want Brexit, and many voted for Labour because they had had enough of Conservative rule.Furthermore, Theresa May only called a surprise, snap general election because she said she wanted to increase her majority to give her a “mandate” for her version of Brexit. Instead, she lost her majority entirely. Voters didn’t give her a “mandate” – but Mrs May has carried on with her Brexit plans as if the 2017 general election had never happened.What’s more, if in Mr Ferrari’s view, the referendum result wasn’t sufficient to change the constitution of a golf club, but the decision could be endorsed or reversed by a general election, then it means that the referendum result of 2016 is not set in stone.Brexit could be democratically undone, if that’s what voters want. And over 50 polls since the 2017 general election all show just that: the majority of UK voters don’t want Brexit. But the government, and the opposition, are not taking any notice. In golfing terms, they’ve whiffed it.

Maybe it would be better if your local golf club ran the country. It would be a darn sight more democratic than it is now. "
You raise some interesting points, but I think the overriding factor is that both camps accepted the rules of the game as they stood when it was initiated, you cannot blame leavers for the fact that remainders could not get their vote out surely?

Incidentally, Would it not not be true to say that the majority of voters either voted leave or didn't vote?

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 29th Jan 2019 at 10:01.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:26
  #3629 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
My draft response to your earlier question disappeared in cyberspace but your post above addresses what I had written.

These T can indeed be stretched but a company I was going to cite had to extend its lines of credit to buy in more materials and of course warehouse the material. It diverts their cash from business expansion and also reduces bank liquidity.

Once the new, longer logistics chain is operating then things will settle at a new normal rate with that extra credit as an additional, on going overhead.
When I worked in logistics, and had the dubious "pleasure" of delivering products to the DC or track side of a major Midlands manufacturer I oft wished that a bit more "T" was allowed in the JIT system, however said manufacturer prided itself on having been paid in full for the end product before it had rolled of the production line, and long before the bits that were used to assemble it had been paid for. The corporate bean counters like it this way, and their aim is not to extend, but to reduce the "T" element by so much, it's often not "Just in Time" but "just too late". The result was, and still is aircraft and vans being chartered to carry a few kilos of a particular part that hadn't reached trackside by the time they were needed. Sometime ridiculous thing happened, like IL76s being chartered at enormous cost to deliver a few kilos - madness!

Sure the delays that are likely to be caused by Brexit with customs processes getting in the way of a smooth transit will lead to the time element being extended. Time = money, and pretty soon there will be a drift in production back to the EU - not in April, probably not by April 2020, but give it 5 years and we'll likely have a lot of former automotive track workers wondering where the next job will come from, and not just those directly employed, but all the ancillary and workers, and those in retail who's former customers won't be quite as flush with cash to buy stuff with.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:27
  #3630 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Don't you think Sainsbury, Tesco, Lidl, Waitrose, you name them, who have all signed the letter to MPs, have given this a thought? Ater all, they are logistics experts, unlike Camp Jet Blast.

But maybe some experts here come up with practical, cost-neutral solutions for some of the problems that immediately come to mind: If you have trucks waiting for days to get inspected in France before being allowed to leave the EU, how do you replace that freight capacity? That is nothing the supply chain caters for. Plus if trucking stuff from Spain to the UK takes longer in the future, factoring in this delay in does not really help to keep the produce fresh (plus trucks and drivers need to be paid for, regardless whether wheels are turning or not, driving costs up). There will be more waste, driving prices up. Or more air freight, driving prices up.

But maybe that was all envisaged by Camp Brexit: A good excuse for not having to eat healthy fruit and veg any more and being forced to tuck into ever more preprocessed junk food. So thank goodness the NHS will have 350m GBP on top each week as a result of Brexit so that it can take care of the results.
My post wasn't aimed at food imports, it was about all the moans that have appeared in all media outlets and fora about how JIT will affect supply of parts to industries.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:36
  #3631 (permalink)  
 
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The automotive workers would have been gone by then anyway due to the Japan trade deal for Dutch cheese and German infrastructure builders.

Currently that deal is on hold until Japan finds out if its still going to get access to the UK import market.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:38
  #3632 (permalink)  
 
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The entire point of JIT manufacturing is to reduce manufacturing times, improve supplier & customer response times & cut inventory. One of those is to benefit customers, the other two are specifically to reduce cost in the supply chain. The notion of extending times for any reason, even something you can't quite articulate, so decide to call msm moaning & remainer whining completely undermines the entire concept.

One of the thousands of consequences of Brexit that leavers plainly never thought about for one minute, but now claim is exactly what they voted for is the wholesale destruction of carefully designed manufacturing operations employing hundreds of thousands of people. Those companies must adapt at their own cost, leave or close in response. What a clever path to have chosen.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:50
  #3633 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Words are so easy to type, aren't they, PN?
They are indeed as you demonstrate. Would your care to explain what is behind your words?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:58
  #3634 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
The entire point of JIT manufacturing is to reduce manufacturing times, improve supplier & customer response times & cut inventory. One of those is to benefit customers, the other two are specifically to reduce cost in the supply chain. The notion of extending times for any reason, even something you can't quite articulate, so decide to call msm moaning & remainer whining completely undermines the entire concept.

One of the thousands of consequences of Brexit that leavers plainly never thought about for one minute, but now claim is exactly what they voted for is the wholesale destruction of carefully designed manufacturing operations employing hundreds of thousands of people. Those companies must adapt at their own cost, leave or close in response. What a clever path to have chosen.
What are you on about? Talk about "something you can't quite articulate".

If you manufacture a whole unit with some component parts from Asia, that need to be shipped to you by sea, and component parts from a factory next door to your own, do you allow the same lead time for them? No, of course you don't. You know roughly how long it will take for the parts to be delivered and you factor that in when ordering, so that they arrive at your factory as near as possible to the time you need them. Any possible delays importing from the EU can similarly be handled by a competent supply chain manager by ensuring the components are ordered that bit earlier. It may take a short period of time to establish what, if any, delays are imposed, but this can easily be buffered for for that short period.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 20:43
  #3635 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
What are you on about? Talk about "something you can't quite articulate".

If you manufacture a whole unit with some component parts from Asia, that need to be shipped to you by sea, and component parts from a factory next door to your own, do you allow the same lead time for them? No, of course you don't. You know roughly how long it will take for the parts to be delivered and you factor that in when ordering, so that they arrive at your factory as near as possible to the time you need them. Any possible delays importing from the EU can similarly be handled by a competent supply chain manager by ensuring the components are ordered that bit earlier. It may take a short period of time to establish what, if any, delays are imposed, but this can easily be buffered for for that short period.
You do realise I've worked in logistics & supply chain since 1988? You therefore will forgive me for pointing out that practically everything in your last post is a shuddering foghorn of ignorance.

You can stick McGyver in the hot seat for all I care, it makes no difference at all if your truck full of falangees is stuck in a ten mile queue at Calais. If your solution to that is to build a new warehouse to take account of your recklessness at the ballot box, then it is no longer JIT manufacturing. It's just manufacturing that is now a lot more expensive than it used to be. And that, PN, is why words are easy to type - rattle off some old rubbish about a new world of logistics, Are you willing to pay for it?

And if so, how much?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 22:28
  #3636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Don't you think Sainsbury, Tesco, Lidl, Waitrose, you name them, who have all signed the letter to MPs, have given this a thought? Ater all, they are logistics experts, unlike Camp Jet Blast.

But maybe some experts here come up with practical, cost-neutral solutions for some of the problems that immediately come to mind: If you have trucks waiting for days to get inspected in France before being allowed to leave the EU, how do you replace that freight capacity? That is nothing the supply chain caters for. Plus if trucking stuff from Spain to the UK takes longer in the future, factoring in this delay in does not really help to keep the produce fresh (plus trucks and drivers need to be paid for, regardless whether wheels are turning or not, driving costs up). There will be more waste, driving prices up. Or more air freight, driving prices up.

But maybe that was all envisaged by Camp Brexit: A good excuse for not having to eat healthy fruit and veg any more and being forced to tuck into ever more preprocessed junk food. So thank goodness the NHS will have 350m GBP on top each week as a result of Brexit so that it can take care of the results.
Usual bitter tirade, so much negativity! perhaps having less will actually be a good thing after all McD were one of the signatories as well, whilst Tesco were NOT. Quoted from bbc radio news btw.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/professi...rts/statistics

https://www.theguardian.com/theobser...and-investment
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 23:20
  #3637 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sfm818 View Post
Why is Labour abstaining on the Immigration Bill?
Me Sir! Please Sir! I know that one!

The had to let the immigration bill pass to keep faith with their electorate.

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Old 28th Jan 2019, 23:57
  #3638 (permalink)  
 
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Isn't the problem, simply put, that a 52% majority shouldn't force it's opinion on a 48 % minority?
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 07:20
  #3639 (permalink)  
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Snigger......


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Old 29th Jan 2019, 07:43
  #3640 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Isn't the problem, simply put, that a 52% majority shouldn't force it's opinion on a 48 % minority?
Simply put: yes, the majority opinion should trump the minority opinion.

The Irish recently held a referendum on legalising abortion. This resulted in a majority for legalisation. If/when the Irish Government enacts legislation those who voted against legalising will have legal abortion forced on them against their opinion. Would this also be wrong?
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