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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 26th Jan 2019, 09:44
  #3481 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Well I was half serious! Why do we care? We tried to enact reform from within. We failed, and now we're leaving.

.
And that's where you fail. We have a long record of getting exactly what we want from the EU but you confuse this with what, with the long assistance of the press, is your ideal personal image of the thing. And no amount of exclamation marks adds any convincing jocularity to your opinions. !! ! !!!!
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:53
  #3482 (permalink)  
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This is from a very important man, sourced from an impeccable newspaper and that is all he is interested in doing, looting pillaging and

At his speech last week in Hastings, Corbyn trailed the intended argument. “I believe that the real divide in our country is not between leave and remain,” he said, arguing that the split was between those “do the work, create the wealth and pay their taxes” and those who “set the rules, reap the rewards and dodge their taxes”.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 11:27
  #3483 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
No way am I ploughing througih that word thicket. Paragraphs lad, paragraphs.
Perfectly readable and paragraphs reasonably clear if you look at short lines.

It is well worth your while to read what he wrote.

Agree a line space between paragraphs would be better. Ball not man.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 14:11
  #3484 (permalink)  
 
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Pontius: Thanks for that response. We agree re paragraphs. A new paragraph is deemed to begin when a line stops short at the end of a sentence and the next sentence begins on a new line. I would agree a blank space between lines would make things slightly more clear but then would take up so much page with only half of the space containing information.
Tell you what though; how about if I go back and edit it, inserting blank lines between sentences so Mr. High and Mighty can more easily read it? That might be worth doing as he would then see that, while arguing with his posts, I did try to end on a conciliatory tone.
PS Did you see what I did there? I just wrote a response with 2 paragraphs. And nary an empty line to be seen! Heretic, obviously.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 14:26
  #3485 (permalink)  
 
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Translation of JC Hastings speech: “I don’t care what sort of Brexit we end up with, if any. It’s just a lever to get me into No 10”
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:01
  #3486 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Investigation? You gotta be kiddin' me. All it shows is a failure to comprehend that not all democracies have the same electoral system as the UK and what the idea of a representative democracy is. And it shows a rather arrogant attitude to believe that the UK's electoral system is the only one that is fitting for a democracy. One could even argue that the UK's system of first past the post is the reason for the chaos the UK is currently expierencing.

Many European states, just like Belgium, follow the concept of proportional representation when it comes to elections. It means that there are much more parties in Parliament and hardly a parliament where one party has a majority. You will almost always have coalitions which some will argue is a good thing as views and positions and not as entrenched as in a two party parliament like in England & Wales. So representatives from smaller parties like Verhofstadt can hold senior positions in government and even head goverrnment if they are able to negotiate effectively. And it also means that even if you loose some votes in a election or even get "hammered", you will still be represented in Parliament, albeit in smaller numbers.

Now, for this drivel about "political groups" in the EP. Just like in any other parliament with numerous parties, MEPs set up parliamentary parties. You have MEPs with a conservative, liberal, green, nationalist, center-left, center-right etc. background as a result of their party membership back home. They form parliamentary parties accordingly and like in any other parliament, these parliamentary parties have a spokesperson elected by its peers. The EP is not different from any other parliament.

It is really difficult to understand why the very same people who find it perfeclty okay that, say, the people in the constituency of Maidenhead can only vote for the MP for Maidenhead and not for the whole UK apparently expect that the EP must mirror the election results in the UK and not the whole EU.



...and a city with 73,8 per cent of the vote for remain.
So are you saying that everything this guy wrote is wrong? Or does it just show that someone who has never been an MEP can be selected to one of the highest positions in the EU? He was even elected to that position, just put in it.
And you think this is right? Many people have criticized those of us to educate ourselves with the democracy of the EU. Well this example does not show that. Stop telling us the EU is transparent and democratic when it clearly isn't.
It does the remain cause no good.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:14
  #3487 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post


So are you saying that everything this guy wrote is wrong? Or does it just show that someone who has never been an MEP can be selected to one of the highest positions in the EU? He was even elected to that position, just put in it.
And you think this is right? Many people have criticized those of us to educate ourselves with the democracy of the EU. Well this example does not show that. Stop telling us the EU is transparent and democratic when it clearly isn't.
It does the remain cause no good.
The EU is democratic. The EU Commission can do nothing without the approval the council of ministers, and all EU legislation has to get through the European parliament. The council of ministers is a body of elected representatives of the individual governments and the European Parliament a democratically elected body, where members are elected by the EU electorate.

Given the obvious dysfunctional nature of the UK parliamentary system, as exposed over the last few months, the EU system may be infinitely preferable!
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:31
  #3488 (permalink)  
 
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Or does it just show that someone who has never been an MEP can be selected to one of the highest positions in the EU?
Who would that be?

Are you sure you completely understand the difference between the European Parliament, the European Commission, the Council of Ministers and the administration of the EU, the powers each has and how you become a member?
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:36
  #3489 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
I appreciate you do a reasonable amateur line in goading, yet still find this instructive of the average, parochial inward looking leaver. It never disappoints.

But I'll tell you why anyway. Your attitude pervades leave thinking all the way up to morons like Mark Francois & beyond, still fighting the second world war & you can see it on display daily, take for example, the backstop. We have Rees Mogg & pals openly dismissing very real concerns over a hard border in NI, suggesting a few Paddys lobbing bullets at each other isn't a big deal, while presumably forgetting the Irish will have, along with the other 26, a veto on any future trade deal we sign with the EU.

People who, like you, can't think beyond a Daily Mail headline will be responsible for all of our difficulties in the coming years, but as you say, who cares?


What hard border is this by the way? The one that all sides say is NOT going to happen, no matter what kind of Brexit we end up with?

And you still havent told me why I, or anybody else, need care about the dysfunctional and undemocratic nature of EU politics post March 29th?

By the way, thanks for the compliments
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:55
  #3490 (permalink)  
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-customs-union

Juncker has told Theresa May in a private phone call that shifting her red lines in favour of a permanent customs union is the price she will need to pay for the EU revising the Irish backstop. Without a major shift in the prime minister’s position, the European commission president told May that the current terms of the withdrawal agreement were non-negotiable.

Details of the call, contained in a leaked diplomatic note, emerged as Juncker’s deputy, Frans Timmermans, said there had been no weakening of the resolve in Brussels in support of Ireland, and accused the Tory Brexiters of a “cavalier” approach to peace......

But Timmermans said attempts to rip out the backstop from the withdrawal agreement or put a time limit on it were doomed to fail. Delaying Brexit, he added, did not solve the problem of finding an agreement that could avoid a no-deal scenario.

The problem is that the House of Commons can say they don’t want a no-deal Brexit but if they don’t say what they want there will be a no-deal brexit on the 29th,” Timmermans said........




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Old 26th Jan 2019, 16:01
  #3491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
... a politician and, in my view, part of the job description includes being less than straight
That might be "your view", but I've actually read (and signed up to) a number of such job descriptions, and none of them contained any such requirement.

It could be different in different parties, I suppose.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 16:23
  #3492 (permalink)  
 
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Now that Mr. Barnier has moved from his "magical thinking" attitude to border technology and adapted the "in-market solution" common sense attitude maybe this chap will be allowed to get on with setting up the Customs systems required between North and South Lars Karlsson
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 16:27
  #3493 (permalink)  
 
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QUOTE=KelvinD;10369347]You are right re the singular v plural here. But I thought "There's" is a contraction, rather than a corruption?[/QUOTE]

Possibly both, but since you have been good enough to spare me Henry Fowler, I'm happy to concede your point!

Sorry - I don't know how to do the double quote thing.


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
First, thanks for the grammatical correction . Strangely, I am not overly concerned as to your diligence in this respect.

Secondly, and you'll excuse me for saying this, the content of your post inferred the UK population would not resort to civil unrest because, seemingly, this is not in our nature and even more so once new arrivals to the UK are taken into the equation....the term "national identity " invariably conceals the unpalatable spectre of xenophobia.

And, you are utterly clueless as to the effects austerity has had on several million of the population...... whereas I am not, from personal experience regarding the lady in my life.
Strangely, I am not overly concerned . . . I don't find this at all strange.

"National identity" does not invariably conceal the spectre of xenophobia; it never occurred to me that it might. It means nothing more nor less that the phrase conveys and it is wrong of you to suppose that I intended otherwise. I am a foreigner by birth so would find xenophobia a rather contrary precept. Please try to understand that not everyone sees things through the distortions of your personal prism.

It is a sadness that you have your own reasons for seemingly harbouring a bitterness borne of your perceived appreciation of an austerity; such things are to be regretted. But I again claim that anyone much under the age of 80, that is to say anyone who has not lived through the deprivations of the War and the years thereafter, can have an understanding of the real austerity which attended a time before the munificence of our present social security. I'm old enough to know whereof I speak.

And at the risk of appearing pedantic, you should have written that I "implied"; "inferred" in this context is incorrect. You already have indicated your lack of regard for English grammar, so I make this observation for such benefit as it might confer upon others.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:47
  #3494 (permalink)  
 
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there is no point what so ever trying to have a discussion with the remainers on here. They will just resort to insults when they haven't got a reply.

Thankfully the end game is in progress and its unlikely they will stop exit. Even if its an extension its pretty certain that the UK is coming out the CU which is the main issue for the Eu because all the trade agreements are based on getting access to the UK's import market for access for other members states exports to the other party's market.

looks like the Eu is going to shaft Eire and hang it out to dry if the bluffing doesn't work showing that all the noise about the border was just that just a load of hot air and nonsense to try and trap the UK into the CU.

35 working days left in parliament.

Still reckon Corybn is going to go for another confidence vote with the GE date occurring on the 29th of march.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:05
  #3495 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
This is from a very important man, sourced from an impeccable newspaper and that is all he is interested in doing, looting pillaging and

At his speech last week in Hastings, Corbyn trailed the intended argument. “I believe that the real divide in our country is not between leave and remain,” he said, arguing that the split was between those “do the work, create the wealth and pay their taxes” and those who “set the rules, reap the rewards and dodge their taxes”.
Quite agree with him.
The Brexit divisions will play themselves out.

But. The disproportionate division of wealth will carry on increasing to the benefit of the top few percent such that Brexit will be seen as a sideshow.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:19
  #3496 (permalink)  
 
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To be honest the EU has made it easier to dodge the taxes. Especially VAT.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:32
  #3497 (permalink)  
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Still reckon Corybn is going to go for another confidence vote with the GE date occurring on the 29th of march.
28th - elections are always on a Thursday......
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:39
  #3498 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
28th - elections are always on a Thursday......
Perhaps the Europhiles amongst us should push for elections to occur over the weekend as quite a few exalted European nations do.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:50
  #3499 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
Perhaps the Europhiles amongst us should push for elections to occur over the weekend as quite a few exalted European nations do.
I'd go for that.

If we did it on a Sunday we wouldn't have to have the polls open from 7am - 10pm: the current hours are to give people time to vote on the way to or from work.

Which if you're doing Good Morning leaflets starting at 0600, and the count goes on until 0500, means a 24-hour working day (or longer if you go to the post-count party). If we did it on a Sunday we could do maybe 8am - 8pm and "only" have to work a 21-hour day (or even shorter for local elections when the count is quicker). Which at my age begins to sound very attractive.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:51
  #3500 (permalink)  
 
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that's the fixed term stuff in think.

The vote of no confidence timing will take precedence over that.

Then poor Aunty Betty will get inundated with the whinging pish that she is the only saviour of Great Britain unless she cancels. She will know fine that the next ref will be about the Monarchy being removed if she does. The remains are more likely to be anti royal anyway and if she pisses off the Leaves enough will swing it for things to change. If the UK leaves and the remains push for it because she didn't do anything then the leaves will vote for the monarchy to continue.

She ain't stupid
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