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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 23rd Jan 2019, 14:26
  #3321 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
So, which of you Brexiteers would care to step out of your revolving door of suitable arguments as to why Brexit is a good idea, depending on which particular piece of bad news you are dismissing & help me to become more informed by telling me which multinational or multinationals is moving it's HQ/manufacturing/R&D/anything at all to the UK in the next twelve months?
Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 16:11
  #3322 (permalink)  
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ATNotts, they were clearly wrong. The Indians are the last we should send home and Poles too. After that the car wash workers
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 18:39
  #3323 (permalink)  
 
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JRM saying that he might support May's deal. A straw in the wind. We wondered who would blink first, who had a guinea on The Mogster?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 19:24
  #3324 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Who mentioned anything about a second referendum? First rule of exams, always read the question.
That was a statement not a question.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 19:28
  #3325 (permalink)  
 
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“Care to step out of revolving door and explain why Brexit is a good idea...”. What would be the point of that? That’s the thing, Parapunter are you just going to continually re-argue the case that you (and I) lost in 2016? We’re in a different place now.

Meanwhile, open-minded Jeremy, happy to shake hands and sit down with IRA terrorists at the height of their bombing, with Hamas and Hezbollah, refuses to even discuss Brexit
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 19:38
  #3326 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone? Must be one multinational coming here because of Brexit, surely.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 20:10
  #3327 (permalink)  
 
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Not wishing to defend Corby, but could it be that he thought Hamas were more open minded and likely to be swayed my logical argument than The Maybot?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 20:17
  #3328 (permalink)  
 
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Just more of the same PP.

Well he hasn’t made an argument, logical or otherwise -or even entered the room.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 20:46
  #3329 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Just more of the same PP.
I
I asked those who told me this is not about trade why they leapt to Dyson's defence. Not one has answered. You can call it more of the same if you wish, it doesn't matter to me, I'm happy to bore you if it means exposing the fundamental flaws in what is far from a settled matter. It's not about re-fighting the referendum although that may yet happen, it's about making the case for diverting the country from a catastrophic path, one obvious truth at a time.

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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 21:09
  #3330 (permalink)  
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I asked those who told me this is not about trade why they leapt to Dyson's defence. Not one has answered.
I thought I did.....
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 21:35
  #3331 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papajuliet View Post
A Midlands newspaper poll shows 67% in favour of a no deal Brexit. How do remainers explain that ?
You ask the second question, what do they think "no deal" actually means, and you discover that around half of them think it means "no change", ie if there isn't a deal we stay just as we are, as members of the EU.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 22:00
  #3332 (permalink)  
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That's the consequence of universal suffrage, an outdated concept that would be better replaced by a one tax payer one vote policy, or so at least say some humanists.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 01:27
  #3333 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Ye gods, twice I have agreed with you in a short time! Actually I really think that is the case, but it has been building up for decades, finally something had to give way, and once a leak is sprung others start popping up with no way of sealing them. Whatever the outcome of Brexit the country has been split irrevocably - it may well mean fundamental changes in the political system if stability is to be maintained yet i can't see the buggers giving up anything unless under extreme force. All the dirty washing is being exposed and sentiments articulated... not yet violently though. Austerity accelerated this I have no doubt.
Sadly, I have to admit that there is some justification for this view. I also feel that we have become divided by an irrevocable schism and I have no idea how this division is likely to be healed. There might have been a time when the British could have risen up in defiance of this nonsense but the British now are not what the British were. Brexit and its scandalous prosecution has engendered a state of national ennui so that one has to suppose that a large measure of reaction and voting preference will reflect the collective boredom with the subject.

Nevertheless, I do not foresee public insurrection - we no longer possess the national identity and the values that this represents to invoke this sort of behaviour. But this has nothing whatever to do with "austerity". This was a phoney term attached by the Cameron/Osborne cabal to their economic devices. Good God! Anyone who did not live through the War and the late 'forties can have no inkling of what austerity is. Rather than put asunder the populace as suggested, common deprivation had a welding effect on the social fabric so that society was infinitely more homogeneous and cohesive than now is the case. One cannot blame austerity for any of our present troubles. Their genesis lies firmly and squarely with this hopeless so-called government but as flash8 has suggested, this collection of fifth-raters is not going to acknowledge anything of the sort. Their better educated might remember Bertolt Brecht's idea; Would it not be easier for government to dissolve the people and start another?
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 06:22
  #3334 (permalink)  
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It would seem the issue of recognition of certification of medecines affects the EU equally, and mutual recognition might be the way to quickly resolve the issue.

https://www.politico.eu/article/dutc...o-deal-brexit/

Dutch hospitals warn on medical supplies if there’s a no-deal Brexit

A no-deal Brexit carries "great risks" to medical supplies in the Netherlands and across the EU, the Dutch Federation of Academic Hospitals (NFU) warned Wednesday.

An "emergency law" has been requested to license the use of U.K.-certified medical supplies until the end of 2019, Reuters reports, amid growing concern that hospitals across the EU could be left without sufficient medical supplies if Britain crashes out of the bloc on March 29 with no deal. Medicines and medical goods account for one tenth of Britain's exports to the Netherlands.

A large number of medical supplies, from bandages to pacemakers, made in other countries receive an EU certification in Britain, and that certification would become invalid if the U.K. exits the bloc with no trade deal on goods and services. “This varies from medicines, tissues and medical supplies becoming unavailable, to problems with data storage and the registration of doctors. The safety of patients is at risk,” the NFU said.

Dutch Health Minister Bruno Bruins said he had "taken up the issue" with EU colleagues, but is yet to give a progress update........


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Old 24th Jan 2019, 07:07
  #3335 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gipsy Queen View Post
Sadly, I have to admit that there is some justification for this view. I also feel that we have become divided by an irrevocable schism and I have no idea how this division is likely to be healed. There might have been a time when the British could have risen up in defiance of this nonsense but the British now are not what the British were. Brexit and its scandalous prosecution has engendered a state of national ennui so that one has to suppose that a large measure of reaction and voting preference will reflect the collective boredom with the subject.

Nevertheless, I do not foresee public insurrection - we no longer possess the national identity and the values that this represents to invoke this sort of behaviour. But this has nothing whatever to do with "austerity". This was a phoney term attached by the Cameron/Osborne cabal to their economic devices. Good God! Anyone who did not live through the War and the late 'forties can have no inkling of what austerity is. Rather than put asunder the populace as suggested, common deprivation had a welding effect on the social fabric so that society was infinitely more homogeneous and cohesive than now is the case. One cannot blame austerity for any of our present troubles. Their genesis lies firmly and squarely with this hopeless so-called government but as flash8 has suggested, this collection of fifth-raters is not going to acknowledge anything of the sort. Their better educated might remember Bertolt Brecht's idea; Would it not be easier for government to dissolve the people and start another?
There's two interpretations of your view.

The first, is that you are advocating rioting/ civil disobedience, strikes and indeed any form of action taken by the public to protest against the Gov't. Plus the inclusion of the term "national identity " which is generally a sanitised way of saying, lets call them immigrants shall we ?....have enhanced the demographic of the UK population but are far from welcome as they are not indigenous "British ". . and if you seriously, and naively believe the UK population aren't capable of protesting, think again.

When shortages , of whatever commodity, start affecting peoples lives and the Gov't is unable, or unwilling, to produce tangible remedies, then unrest develops very quickly. Chuck in a recession. albeit the "R" word doesn't get mentioned too much, so far, and it's far from unrealistic to expect the electorate to sit passively and place their faith and trust in the Gov't.

Thereafter, I suggest you enter " austerity in the UK" , or any similar terms, into the search engine of choice and see what comes up.....here's a helpful clue.....make sure you are sitting comfortably because you will be reading about the destructive effects on millions of peoples lives for some considerable time.

As has been mentioned, "once or twice " were it not for March 29th taking over politics, the policies of the Gov't and austerity......still very much a fact of life, despite Treeza gushing forth to the contrary, would be getting the prominence they deserve. Dave and Gideon, between them, imposed some of the most vindictive and malicious policies of any Gov't with their targets being those who are least able to defend themselves ..in any respect. Thankfully, the Lib Dems did provide an obstacle to negate even more draconian policies being introduced.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 07:20
  #3336 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
You ask the second question, what do they think "no deal" actually means, and you discover that around half of them think it means "no change", ie if there isn't a deal we stay just as we are, as members of the EU.
And this underlines the main problem with Brexit and the referendum. A large minority of the the electorate are only peripherally interested in politics. I see it every day. One woman I know, in her mid sixties, a stalwart of the local WI and a Tory activist in the days of Thatcher happily posts Britain First stuff on Facebook. If you talk to her she is utterly reasonable but if you try to discuss anything in depth she will divert the conversation to Come Dancing or East Enders. In short she is woefully un/mis informed. On these sort of people we relied upon to make a decision of great importance. She can bake a lovely cake but quite honestly couldn't think her way out of a paper bag.

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Old 24th Jan 2019, 07:49
  #3337 (permalink)  
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"no deal" actually means, and you discover that around half of them think it means "no change"
Blame Noel Edmonds for that one and the politicos that didn't see that coming.

Would "no representation without taxation" run? It would disenfranchise most students. It would disenfranchise those in low wages or non-working wives and some pensioners.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 07:50
  #3338 (permalink)  
 
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So Is this what some people mean when they say they want to “take back control” ?...


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8742616.html

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Old 24th Jan 2019, 08:04
  #3339 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
I thought I did.....
I don't think you or anyone else did, but in view of your defence of Dyson, I'd be pleased to hear your thoughts on Airbus this morning.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 08:05
  #3340 (permalink)  
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GQ, you used the term ennui and GW said that some hold strong uniformed views. I think both combined could actually lead to a 3-way spilt with vociferous groups on left and right and the 'ennui' party of the majority in the middle.

In essence that middle group would no longer swing an election and the result would be decided by the extreme that marshalled the bigger turnout. If voting numbers dropped to levels experienced in the first P&CC elections, another from the hat of Cameron, introduced but poorly explained, anything could happen.
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