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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 16th Jan 2019, 21:32
  #2981 (permalink)  
 
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There are European Parliament elections towards the end of May (no -pun) and ANY disturbance in the force before that happening will have repercussions, either large or small in the outcomes. France, Spain, Italy and Germany have all simmering domestic political differences, with alternate parties coming to the fore. Whilst the EU is a behemoth, it isn't as secure in it's control as we are led to believe.
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Old 16th Jan 2019, 21:49
  #2982 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Seen that done in a council meeting. Someone really couldn't stick voting for something, and voting against would been seriously disrespectful. So they went and hid in the loo. Once the vote had been taken a colleague went and fetched them back into the council chamber, as previously arranged.
I once switched sides and voted with The Tories on a planning matter. In the end it made no difference because one Tory switched and voted with Labour. The reason I did that was that the planning application came from a Tory councillor and I felt that my side were making the decision on party political reasons rather than planning ones.
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Old 16th Jan 2019, 22:58
  #2983 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I once switched sides and voted with The Tories on a planning matter. In the end it made no difference because one Tory switched and voted with Labour. The reason I did that was that the planning application came from a Tory councillor and I felt that my side were making the decision on party political reasons rather than planning ones.
Indeed planning is, legally, not party political. So it was impossible for you to "switch sides and vote with the Tories on a planning matter" because there couldn't, legally, have been any (party political) sides in the first place.

One of the effects I've had on the landscape of Cambridge was approving the "interesting" house on the Magdalene College boathouse site. The vote was tied, and I was chair of the area committee that year, and I thought the "interesting" design would be more fun than the existing permission, so that's where my chair's casting vote went. I did say that I thought we had a really bizarre system if that sort of decision ended up depending on my artistic judgement! (I don't claim to have any.)

The house in question is to the right of the bridge here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.21...!7i5376!8i2688

PS: A local LibDem councillor was really quite cross when her planning application was turned down by a LibDem dominated committee. (She was a county councillor and didn't have the same training and experience at planning as we district councillors.) It was turned down because she was taking the piss, although we did try to explain to her very helpfully what she needed to do to get permission for what she wanted.

Last edited by Gertrude the Wombat; 16th Jan 2019 at 23:02. Reason: PS added
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Old 16th Jan 2019, 23:47
  #2984 (permalink)  
 
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I had a similarly interesting case in Southwold. An application came in to put a Disney style spire on a house on the cliff top. The Town Council were up in arms and flooded the meeting. I began my contribution by saying: "this application is both bizarre and eccentric.." Cue smiles from the Southwoldites. I continued "..and as such it fits perfectly with the character of the town". They were not best pleased. Anyway it was built and painted a Disneyesque shade of pink. I would lay odds that if someone wanted to remove it now, twenty five years on, there would be an outcry.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 00:11
  #2985 (permalink)  
 
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John Crace on form today when describing the vote of no confidence debate..

......there is nothing average about this parliament. If only. That’s a level of elite performance which most MPs can only dream about. It’s taken years of training for this bunch just to learn how to get dressed in the morning. Or undressed in Boris Johnson’s case. You’d get more sense out of someone who’d overdosed on barbiturates..............Rather than a sense of history in the making, there was more a vague sense of embarrassment. As if everyone had blacked out after getting completely trashed and had come round unable to remember precisely what they had said or done. All they had was a lingering sense of having behaved badly. A communal dance of shame in which no one quite dared to look anyone else in the eye.




https://www.theguardian.com/politics...k-to-the-farce
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 00:38
  #2986 (permalink)  
 
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Three-quarters of voters say the crisis-hit EU departure process has shown that the current generation of MPs are “not up to the job”, according to the data from polling firm ComRes. A root-and-branch overhaul of the country’s entire political system is wanted by a massive 72% of people quizzed in the survey. But despite the chaos embroiling Brexit, a majority of voters (53%) still want the result of the 2016 EU Leave vote to be honoured by ensuring the UK’s withdrawal from the bloc and do not want a second referendum to be triggered. The scathing verdict on the Westminster political elite is delivered today in the ComRes poll of more than 2,000 voters.
Poll today, says it all.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 07:35
  #2987 (permalink)  
 
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Bookies now quoting 1/4 odds-on for a Brexit delay.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:25
  #2988 (permalink)  
 
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The piece quoted by wiggy hits the nail. What a disgraceful performance from every part of the political system.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:38
  #2989 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Bookies now quoting 1/4 odds-on for a Brexit delay.
I said months ago that the EU procedure of stopping the clock could come in to play.

I know that the suggestion that the EU were bluffing was dismissed as after 30 months and days to go, no change, but 69 days is years in politics never mind a week. I don't say they are bluffing or will fold but who knows?
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:47
  #2990 (permalink)  
 
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And, as one of the three million plus disenfranchised Brits living and working on the Continent, it is shocking to watch with hands tied and fills one with despair.
Imagine feeling like you're waiting outside the Headmaster's study, waiting to be punished for something you didn't do, knowing it will be a caning but not knowing if it will be 2, 4 or 6 strokes!
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:53
  #2991 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Poll today, says it all.
it it actually says rather more than that. The question should we remain or leave elicited a 53/47 split. But of course that didn't fit with the Express narrative so Comres went on to ask "Should the government get on with implementing the result of the 2016 referendum." Quite clearly a leading question that really disqualifies the pollster from claiming to be a serious, unbiased researcher. Not surprisingly this achieved a 53% positive response. The spirit of Arron Banks still haunts the land.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 09:07
  #2992 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I said months ago that the EU procedure of stopping the clock could come in to play.

I know that the suggestion that the EU were bluffing was dismissed as after 30 months and days to go, no change, but 69 days is years in politics never mind a week. I don't say they are bluffing or will fold but who knows?
You're right, of course. I can exclusively reveal that 400 MPs were bribed by the EU to vote against the Bill. Bercow was kidnapped and replaced by Junker in disguise with 50cm removed from his legs.
It was all an EU plot to kill the deal it had agreed, and our Parliament was powerless to prevent it.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 09:12
  #2993 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I said months ago that the EU procedure of stopping the clock could come in to play.

I know that the suggestion that the EU were bluffing was dismissed as after 30 months and days to go, no change, but 69 days is years in politics never mind a week. I don't say they are bluffing or will fold but who knows?
As Sallyann has implied I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick......if “stopping the clock” does happen the U.K. has to start the ball rolling...
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 09:26
  #2994 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


As Sallyann has implied I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick......if “stopping the clock” does happen the U.K. has to start the ball rolling...
Who will stop the clock? It has to be the UK if it is to happen at all, and May doesn't seem to want to do so. .
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 09:29
  #2995 (permalink)  
 
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Lib dems: 2nd ref
Plaid: 2nd ref
Greens (x1): 2nd ref
Scot Nats: 2nd ref
Labour: No deal off the table

DUP We own you.

Everyone else: FFS.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 09:33
  #2996 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Who will stop the clock? It has to be the UK if it is to happen.
If May wasn't so stubborn then the government would draft a short bill to suspend Art. 50 (not cancel it, that wouldn't get through parliament, and would in any event be political suicide). I suspect that on Monday that will happen courtesy of amendments following her (I suspect fairly pointless) "Plan B" statement. However suspension isn't within the gift of the UK government, and unless it is for something momentous, such as a new referendum or a general election I can't necessarily see the EU agreeing. They certainly won't agree to say 6 months extension, just so UK MPs and the government can carry on bickering and play the politics of self interest - a la Jeremy Corbyn.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 09:38
  #2997 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post


it it actually says rather more than that. The question should we remain or leave elicited a 53/47 split. But of course that didn't fit with the Express narrative so Comres went on to ask "Should the government get on with implementing the result of the 2016 referendum." Quite clearly a leading question that really disqualifies the pollster from claiming to be a serious, unbiased researcher. Not surprisingly this achieved a 53% positive response. The spirit of Arron Banks still haunts the land.
That sort of polling is exactly what gives surveys a bad name. If Comres had any balls they'd have told their client to sling their hook, but of course money talks, and if Comres had turned the job down another research agency would have taken up the job, flawed question and all.

As you say, a neutral question would have elicited a different result.

As with all surveys, ask four questions. Who commissioned the research, what was the question, and who conducted the research, and using what methodology.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 10:13
  #2998 (permalink)  
 
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Btw the EU has already started giving way on certain issues.

Aviation being one of them.

Unfortunately for them they left it to late and the summer season will be brutal for the med countries.

Of course they have buttered it up they are doing it for everyone's benefit because the UK can't organise a piss up in a brewery.

But fundamentally they were looking at a suicide season in the med. Even now I think they are stuffed.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 10:21
  #2999 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Btw the EU has already started giving way on certain issues.

Aviation being one of them.

Unfortunately for them they left it to late and the summer season will be brutal for the med countries.

Of course they have buttered it up they are doing it for everyone's benefit because the UK can't organise a piss up in a brewery.

But fundamentally they were looking at a suicide season in the med. Even now I think they are stuffed.
You really do appear to live in some kind of parallel universe. The big tour operators aren't reporting a significant fall in bookings to the Spanish and other EU resorts, somewhat surprisingly considering the uncertainty surrounding the UK economy.

Spain can live quite happily without the influx of the knotted hankie, tea like mum makes brigade anyway. The void, were there to be one, will be filled by Germans, Russians and whoever else. it's not just the Brits that go to Spain, and in any event the biggest contingent to Mallorca is actually German!

Can we possibly make this thread a "Fake News" free zone? Dressing up opinion as fact assists nobody.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 10:25
  #3000 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
If May wasn't so stubborn then the government would draft a short bill to suspend Art. 50 (not cancel it, that wouldn't get through parliament, and would in any event be political suicide). I suspect that on Monday that will happen courtesy of amendments following her (I suspect fairly pointless) "Plan B" statement. However suspension isn't within the gift of the UK government, and unless it is for something momentous, such as a new referendum or a general election I can't necessarily see the EU agreeing. They certainly won't agree to say 6 months extension, just so UK MPs and the government can carry on bickering and play the politics of self interest - a la Jeremy Corbyn.
Actually, you can't single out Corbyn in this respect, even if this is JB, because there are more than a few MP's who have indulged in the "politics of self interest " and will continue to do so. Capitulation and / or compromise isn't a concept they adhere to.

However, thanks entirely to Brexit, this not so little issue, and it joins a long list in this respect, has been quietly ignored or rather not given the public scrutiny it deserves......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46900918
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